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Swiss companies must pay share of rent for employees working from home

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Re: Swiss companies must pay share of rent for employees working from home

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My personal expenses are decidedly lower when I work from home. So I don't see how it can be said that they are shifting their costs onto me.

Disruptions to these are now your responsibility to fix and your pay check is now dependent on them.

I suppose that's a fair point, though if there is a problem with my house I can work from the library or the supermarket, etc, just as easily.

Re: Swiss companies must pay share of rent for employees working from home

#252
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What cost? If anything the employee now saves time and money from the commute alone.

My workspace cost me money to furnish, and it permanently takes up part of my house. I don't personally mind as software development is a large part of my hobbies as well so I'd have that dedicated space irrespective of my job, but for a lot of people the need for a dedicated work space is tied to their job, and not something they'd otherwise need. Whether or not it's a net saving vs. transport costs really depends o…

Are people really creating dedicated spaces? What happened to all those people who were in coworking spaces and cafes where they really had nothing more than a desk and a chair?

I think the developer perspective can cloud the fact that the overwhelming majority just have a laptop and a place to put it for their "workspace".

Re: Swiss companies must pay share of rent for employees working from home

#253
post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's 35min a day you don't have to spend. That's 2.5 hours a week.

No, that's 35 minutes of physical activity they have to make up some other way.

They're free to spend that time doing whatever they want instead of being forced to travel to a location. That's the freedom they gain.

Of course they can continue to spend that time doing the exact same walk if they want, no "make up some other way" necessary.

Re: Swiss companies must pay share of rent for employees working from home

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they previously chose those areas for convenient location in regards their work, now they're free to move anywhere they'd like.

“Free”? Do you have absolutely no attachments to where you live? People have social support networks - friends, families, places that they go to, classes they’re taking. Children who go to schools and have friends there and go to parks for play dates and birthdays. Those are just one or two of the social costs. How much does it cost in real money to relocate a family of 3 or 4? People who live close to work in an exp…

Those social attachments are not the responsibility of the employer.

Re: Swiss companies must pay share of rent for employees working from home

#256

I am not renting, can I ask for my company to pay my mortgage? Of if my mortgage was over, could I "rent" my home to company for the hours I work? The entitlement from these guys, just gross.

This sounds perfectly reasonable to me. If they expect you to work from a particular location, then it would make sense that they'd need to reimburse you for your expenses regarding that place of work. It's actually something that's been bothering for a while in regards to how some remote employers would reimburse the expenses of a co-working space - it makes much more sense to me that they would equally reimburse the costs of working from home.

Re: Swiss companies must pay share of rent for employees working from home

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would gladly pay the same amount of money directly to the employee instead of dealing with insurance companies and their bullshit. Well in this case the swiss companies must pay the amount directly to the employee, so you should be happy?

In this case, it makes no sense for employer to pay. Everyone lives differently, have different homes, different cost of utilities etc. It makes more sense to provide a tax deduction or credit to employee directly. If using this theory that just because someone is working from home, we should pay a portion of rent etc, then where do we stop. Why not pay for their coffee/tea while they are working at home. How do we d…

As they say, developers are machines that turn coffee into code. As such, if a line must be drawn, I would definitely draw it past coffee/tea and everything else which has a reasonable impact on developer productivity.

Re: Swiss companies must pay share of rent for employees working from home

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My ethical compass would feel it's wrong to squeeze additional benefits from an arrangement I have seen others thinking like that, and then become very sore when they are fired in an economic downturn. They feel that "it is not fair" because they did as much as they could for their company, the company did not care. Is that different in Switzerland? Has it a similar culture to Japan where firing an employee is the…

There is a (not so fine) line between looking after yourself and being a greedy jerk. I find that a little bit of grace goes a long way. Ask for a raise when you deserve it, absolutely. But if you ruthlessly try to extract every last penny from your employer, they will do the same to you. Have you ever browsed HN at work? Have you ever left just a few minutes before 5? I don't want my workplace to be a battleground o…

"Have you ever left just a few minutes before 5"

There's a story I was once told about how someone worked really late and then they came in late the next morning, but a VP happened to notice and they got in trouble despite having worked overtime.

I'm in favor of not being a "greedy jerk", but you have to do it for yourself. If you think you will be rewarded, that is delusional, and really just another type of greed.

Re: Swiss companies must pay share of rent for employees working from home

#259
post #20

Thought: - Companies that now realised that remote schemes works for them, will push for that scheme to remain, with the aim of reducing their fixed costs (office rent, utilities, insurance, etc). - This eliminates a big chunk of fixed costs... as most are shifted to the employees. - If authorities/employees start demanding that part of those costs are covered by the company, companies will push to get avoid work-fro…

> This eliminates a big chunk of fixed costs... as most are shifted to the employees On the other hand, employees suddenly gain a lot of free time, especially those on enormous commutes. But even for small-ish commutes and 1 day/wk in the physical office the numbers are significant - at 30min one way travel, 4 days HO give you 4 h of extra time - or 10% of their workweek. Fully remote with 1h one way travel? 10 hours…

I wasn't enthusiastic initially about working from home, and my actual travel time was about 10 minutes each way, which is about my tolerance for commuting.

But the thing I like most about WFH is that it feels like I've gained a lot of time. I may only drive for 10 minutes, but it takes 5 minutes to pack up, 10 minutes to walk to my car, 10 minutes to drive, 5 minutes to...it feels like I have more than an hour additional free time every day.

Re: Swiss companies must pay share of rent for employees working from home

#260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they previously chose those areas for convenient location in regards their work, now they're free to move anywhere they'd like.

“Free”? Do you have absolutely no attachments to where you live? People have social support networks - friends, families, places that they go to, classes they’re taking. Children who go to schools and have friends there and go to parks for play dates and birthdays. Those are just one or two of the social costs. How much does it cost in real money to relocate a family of 3 or 4? People who live close to work in an exp…

Actually, yes. I have no attachments to where I live. I am personally free to go live anywhere I want in the country. I don't really have friends, don't have children, I don't want to live near my family, and I'm single.

"How much does it cost in real money to relocate a family of 3 or 4?"

Versus living in the aforementioned very expensive area? Seems like it would probably save money to move somewhere more affordable.

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