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Swiss companies must pay share of rent for employees working from home

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Re: Swiss companies must pay share of rent for employees working from home

#221

Post by fma »

thetopher wrote: post #111
sdfx wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A trend that started already in a lot of companies a couple of years ago and will only be accelerated by Covid. Many places do overbook desks in offices right now and have flex-tables without fixed assigned workers. Seems fair to think about compensating employees for the costs that are being pushed to their side.

As a non-remote employee, I had to find housing near my office. Now, as a remote employee, my only real requirements are a power source and internet connection. Sure, I have to live somewhere, but that need isn’t a result of my employment. It seems that non-remote employees have more specific and expensive housing requirements and costs.

I chose my employer based on where I want to live. The commute is stil about 40 minutes of driving each way buts its manageable. If I chose my employer to be in downtown Atlanta, or thereabouts, I would need to live in an area with more expensive house, less space, and crappy schools... Or drive 1.5 hours. Unless they'd double my salary, the 1.5 hour commute is a deal breaker.

Microsoft just announced 1500 jobs in downtown Atlanta, to be near Georgia tech and the tech hub. Not sure if they realize that developers who have working experience, likely now have kids now and arent going to settle for C level schools. Their location isn't even supported by mass transit that well (bus, but no train. They likely payed a premium for the space since it's "hip".

I've found it ironic that there's even such thing a tech hub, since we are the ones who create and push for remote work.

Re: Swiss companies must pay share of rent for employees working from home

#222

Post by dheera »

Although the US isn't this great that they give you an outright subsidy on rent, I believe if you're in independent consultant you can tax writeoff part of your rent if you have a part of your residence that is used exclusively for business purposes. (Disclaimer: IANAL, IANACPA)

Re: Swiss companies must pay share of rent for employees working from home

#223

Post by nharmonia »

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #76
marcinzm wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Given Facebook's propensity to attract and hire young twentysomethings then surely their exact location in the Bay Area is immaterial Twenty somethings are the exact group of people who don't want to live in a socially dead place. And except for recent college grads even twenty somethings will have significant others who won't want to suddenly move to somewhere else. It's why startups keep being created in SF which…

But the Bay Area is a big place and I consider the whole area to be socially alive. I fully understand wanting to stay in the Bay Area - but there's a big difference in land-value between being situated around Mountain View and San Francisco vs. the east-side of the Bay). What I don't understand is why the east-side of the Bay seems overlooked or even neglected lately (even more-so considering Berkeley's history).

As a twenty something who lived for free in Fremont for 3 months last year, I'd shell out the extra cash to live in SF/anywhere else next time. Maybe having access to a car would have changed my view?

Re: Swiss companies must pay share of rent for employees working from home

#224

Post by dheera »

wiradikusuma wrote: post #199

Unless there's no physical office at all, and the employees are told to work from home (the article mentioned this), I think it's a hard sell for employers to pay their employee's share of rent. If I were an employer and have rented an office space, whether the space is full or empty or half empty, I'm still paying more or less the same. Yes, there are coworking spaces where I can pay per headcount, but it's much mor…

Paying their entire rent is a hard sell, but I would think it reasonable to pay for an employee to have a setup at home that would be as good as they would get at a modern office.

That includes things like:

* office-quality furniture -- sit/stand desks, chairs, videoconference equipment

* computers, monitors, whatever you would provide for them at work

* subsidies for lunch and snacks if it's the norm in your locale (it is for lots of companies in Silicon Valley)

* adequate lighting

* decent bandwidth internet connection

* housing market rate cash for the employee to rent a space with 1 additional bedroom than what they previously had, that can be converted into a dedicated workspace

* some reasonable budget for art/decorations/plants/whatever in your dedicated workspace. basically stuff that you would normally have in a modern office

All of this would probably still add up to much, much less than they spend on employees at a real office. It's for the company's own good as well -- do you really want your employees working out of a noisy cramped bedroom with 4 other housemates and strapped for cash to buy only used IKEA furniture with missing screws and sit cramped between a bed and a tiny desk, or do you want your employee to be focused in a comfortable workspace and get work done?

Re: Swiss companies must pay share of rent for employees working from home

#225

Post by kube-system »

mindvirus wrote: post #219
dleslie wrote: post #133

Canada has a tax break for those that work from home: https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/individ...

The USA does too, but the trouble is it has to be exclusively used for working from home- so you can't have a guest room you use as an office most of the time, which is particularly tricky in cities. I wonder if that'll change in the future with more WFH.

> you can't have a guest room you use as an office most of the time

You can if you are smart about it, because you can deduct part of a room. Deduct the area for your desk, office chair, but don't deduct the guest bed, etc.

Re: Swiss companies must pay share of rent for employees working from home

#226

Post by mschuster91 »

antr wrote: post #20

Thought: - Companies that now realised that remote schemes works for them, will push for that scheme to remain, with the aim of reducing their fixed costs (office rent, utilities, insurance, etc). - This eliminates a big chunk of fixed costs... as most are shifted to the employees. - If authorities/employees start demanding that part of those costs are covered by the company, companies will push to get avoid work-fro…

> This eliminates a big chunk of fixed costs... as most are shifted to the employees

On the other hand, employees suddenly gain a lot of free time, especially those on enormous commutes. But even for small-ish commutes and 1 day/wk in the physical office the numbers are significant - at 30min one way travel, 4 days HO give you 4 h of extra time - or 10% of their workweek. Fully remote with 1h one way travel? 10 hours or over a whole work day's equivalent of time.

On top of that employees gain other positive results like saving hard money on their car / public transport ticket and, especially for introverts or people with back issues, a large uptick in life quality as they don't have to stand in overcrowded subway cars or stuck in stop-n-go traffic jams.

The fair solution would be for employers to pay a fair share of rent and decent regulations-conforming equipment (chairs!) for those working from home - and giving a raise to those who physically have to come to the office, e.g. to deal with paperwork.

Re: Swiss companies must pay share of rent for employees working from home

#227

Post by frandroid »

CaptainZapp wrote: post #130
antr wrote: post #20

Thought: - Companies that now realised that remote schemes works for them, will push for that scheme to remain, with the aim of reducing their fixed costs (office rent, utilities, insurance, etc). - This eliminates a big chunk of fixed costs... as most are shifted to the employees. - If authorities/employees start demanding that part of those costs are covered by the company, companies will push to get avoid work-fro…

> I'm sure that there are other unintended consequences, such as higher rents, but who knows. That's not that easy. While Switzerland doesn't do rent control per se and there can be regional differences depending on scarcity of real estate for rent a landlord is rather restricted in raising rent once a contract is signed. The only reasons why a rent can be raised are: - Additional investments into an apartment, but t…

That sounds like rent control to me!

Re: Swiss companies must pay share of rent for employees working from home

#228

Post by hugey010 »

mindvirus wrote: post #219
dleslie wrote: post #133

Canada has a tax break for those that work from home: https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/individ...

The USA does too, but the trouble is it has to be exclusively used for working from home- so you can't have a guest room you use as an office most of the time, which is particularly tricky in cities. I wonder if that'll change in the future with more WFH.

I'm no tax lawyer or guru, but let's say usage is 25% bedroom and 75% principal office; you can take 75% of the square footage of the room against your total home square footage as the number for doing the deduction. Easiest is to have a dedicated space, but I imagine this is going to be a new normal now for tax filings.

Re: Swiss companies must pay share of rent for employees working from home

#230

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

tilolebo wrote: post #172

Interesting ruling, it kind of makes sense but I'm not sure that's the best solution. In Germany you can save up to 1250 EUR / year in your tax declaration if you have a dedicated work room, but the conditions are quite strict. I don't know if all remote workers can benefit from it, but if that's not the case I hope Germany will adapt the law. Considering the benefits from an ecological point of view, I think it make…

Yeah, the automotive industry is gonna get a nice bailout from our tax euros this time as they'll justify it wilth all the potential unemployed people that result from everyone not buying cars any more.
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