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MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

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Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#701

Post by the_af »

hrktb wrote: post #669
the_af wrote: post #594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough. I'm not a Mac OS X user so I don't know how it would compare. I can only compare it with my past experience with Windows, and I think it's superior (for me) to Windows circa 7 -- I stopped using Windows entirely at that point, so I wouldn't know how later versions of Windows fare. Portability is also a fair issue to raise, but it's simply not a problem for me. When I say Linux "on the desktop", I literal…

Thanks for the additional details. For the printers, you are right in that it’s far from being a solved problem on macos. I had an EPSON all in one before, and it was also a pain to get everything working. If I remember correctly the generic driver could print, but we didn’t get “advanced” options without going through the EPSON pkg installer and all the garbage coming with it. I’d totally imagine the linux driver be…

Right. I forgot about Asia. In that case it must be painful, agreed!

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#702

Post by radicaldreamer »

saagarjha wrote: post #659
threeseed wrote: post #656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple already has every iPhone user's photos, messages, browsing history, keychains etc. Not sure how a list of installed apps is going to be worse than that.

Not if you choose to not sync them.

Yup, you can choose to not use iCloud backup and back up offline in an encrypted way (even over wifi) if you’d like.

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#703

Post by carnitas »

fphhotchips wrote: post #691
mindfulhack wrote: post #677

I still love macOS, a lot. Since moving over after the disaster that was Windows 8 (and by then I was already using MacBook hardware), I've become a loving power user e.g. with AppleScript and setting up hotkeys or other ways to do absolutely anything I want on the screen. It really is still as powerfully customisable as Linux. Turn off SIP if need be. My only problem in moving to Linux software is that I prefer Appl…

I have a 2019 Macbook Pro 16in and I hate it. It runs exceptionally hot (leading to massive performance problems), doesn't get enough power from the adapter to start with no battery, doesn't play nicely with my display, needs restarting every couple of days so Chrome doesn't crash and takes forever to boot. That's just the technical problems. I'm willing to give the UI a break, since it's probably as much me adjustin…

Counterpoint, I also have the 16 inch 2020 MBP as my first Mac work laptop and absolutely love it. No issues, it works perfectly, and I’m 2x as productive on it as I was on my previous Ubuntu setup.

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#704

Post by roenxi »

userbinator wrote: post #643
throwaway851 wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another way to look at it is that Apple is making it harder to run the system in an insecure fashion. You may not agree with that decision, but I certainly appreciate how Apple is looking out for the safety and security of the user. Tangent: as much as some developers hate that the only way to distribute apps for the iPhone is through the App Store, as a user I consider that walled garden of apps to be a real securit…

Another way to look at it is that Apple is making it harder to run the system in an insecure fashion. You may not agree with that decision, but I certainly appreciate how Apple is looking out for the safety and security of the user. "Those who give up freedom for security deserve neither." (Yes, I know the original intent was slightly different, but that old saying has gotten a lot more vivid recently, as companies a…

The quote isn't at all relevant to technical decisions though. Eg, there is enforcement that a program can't arbitrarily access any RAM it likes on the same machine. That is trading freedom for security and it is a good trade. And there isn't really an argument against gatekeeping software - users as a body don't have time to verify that the software they use is secure. I'd be shocked if the median web developer even reads up on all the CVEs for their preferred libraries. Gatekeepers are an overwhelmingly good idea for typical don't-care everyday users.

The issue is if it becomes practically impossible to move away from Apple to an alternative. Given that they have a pretty typical market share in absolute terms that doesn't seem like a risk right now. They don't even hold an absolute majority in what I assume is their strongest market, the US, let alone globally.

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#705

Post by saurik »

jwlake wrote: post #40

The funny thing is its not transitive. No slowdown if you invoke bash specifically with a new shell. % rm /tmp/test.sh ; echo $'#!/bin/sh\necho Hello' > /tmp/test.sh && chmod a+x /tmp/test.sh % time bash /tmp/test.sh && time bash /tmp/test.sh Hello bash /tmp/test.sh 0.00s user 0.00s system 83% cpu 0.004 total Hello bash /tmp/test.sh 0.00s user 0.00s system 77% cpu 0.003 total vs the one from the article: % rm /tmp/te…

When you run "bash hello" you are calling exec() on bash, passing "hello" as an argument, which bash then reads; when you run "./hello" you are calling exec() on hello: the kernel then treats "hello" as an executable, but notes that "hello" starts with "#!" and then will run the specified interpreter for you, passing "./hello" as an argument. The kernel doesn't think of "hello" as a program when you run "bash hello".

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#706

Post by MintelIE »

When will computer and OS companies start telling us exactly what data they’re taking and who they give it to? I was an Apple user from 2002 until last year. I just can’t be spied on and telemetized any more. It’s not beneficial to me and I can see all kinds of downsides. Especially since big tech has it in for anybody politically to the right of Bernie.

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#707

Post by ochoa »

mindfulhack wrote: post #677

I still love macOS, a lot. Since moving over after the disaster that was Windows 8 (and by then I was already using MacBook hardware), I've become a loving power user e.g. with AppleScript and setting up hotkeys or other ways to do absolutely anything I want on the screen. It really is still as powerfully customisable as Linux. Turn off SIP if need be. My only problem in moving to Linux software is that I prefer Appl…

Do you write anywhere online about your workflow setup using AppleScript? It sounds interesting. I’d like to configure my macOS experience more.

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#708

Post by pmarreck »

xvector wrote: post #650
brendangregg wrote: post #613

Adding network calls to syscalls like exec() is utterly insane. This road can lead to bricked laptops where you can't run anything to fix it (imagine an unexpected network error that the code doesn't handle properly). And crackers will just use ways to overwrite running instruction text to avoid the exec(). The comments on the article are annoying: it good that there's a mini way to reproduce, but please, use some fu…

There is no excuse for this except for sheer, utter incompetence. Everyone involved in writing and shipping this should be ashamed of themselves.

There’s going to be a big exodus of open source developers going to Linux-powered platforms instead of the standard Mac laptop because of this ridiculousness

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#709

Post by HappyDreamer »

drvdevd wrote: post #700
xvector wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no excuse for this except for sheer, utter incompetence. Everyone involved in writing and shipping this should be ashamed of themselves.

This is what I scrolled all the way down this thread for - to see if anyone thinks this is a good design/security decision on Apples part. I’m trying to understand what the reasoning is for this particular decision and if it actually makes the OS more secure in any meaningful way? Or does it actually- just degrade performance with very limited benefits? Are there any real benefits to this VS current security design i…

Couldn't this have been a business decision? Not about security? (just what they say?)

To make non-App-store apps annoyingly unusable, so the App store will sell more apps, instead of people downloading in other ways?

Just like Apple cripples the Safari browser and PWA apps.

Long term, maybe Apple wants to be able to remote-forbid apps if Apple is developing their own competing app?

Whilst most developers working at Apple understands this, and don't like it? Maybe the developers even feel happy about people here at HN being disappointed, and think that "now the business people here at Apple notice that this causes disappointment" ?

Re: MacOS Catalina: Slow by Design?

#710

Post by vsskanth »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #698

Do you think developers make up a significant portion of Mac buyers? I think it's possible, but I'm not sure. I am pretty sure the laptop market has been shrinking generally (as more people have a phone but no laptop). And most developers I know have macs. They probably don't want to make the OS significantly worse for developers...

After this, you can be sure the developer interest will go down even further
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