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Google is now applying its coronavirus misinformation policies to personal files

reclaimthenet.org

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Re: Google is now applying its coronavirus misinformation policies to personal files

#121

Post by john-state-moz »

guevara wrote: post #46
drummer wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The future is all about self hosting and/or peer to peer technology not controlled by a central authority.

I don't know, I think p2p is more a meme. Sure, it has its use cases but for "muh decentralization of authority", I don't think the future will consist of p2p tech. Just look at BitChute and Steemit.

While I'm not familiar with BitChute, a large part of Steemit's issues boil down to their choice of consensus mechanism: delegated proof-of-stake (dPOS), rather than a fault with a p2p model generally. Many decentralized projects stay away from dPOS, as it can lead to the cartel-like structure that's currently plaguing the platform.

Re: Google is now applying its coronavirus misinformation policies to personal files

#122

Post by salawat »

jrockway wrote: post #56
dvt wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is (what is basically) a unilaterally executed "gag order" not a big deal?

Do any cloud providers provide free unlimited outbound transfer? Because that's what a public file on Google Drive is. Cutting off someone who is abusing your free tier isn't censorship.

It has not been proven Google does that for all 4GB files. Verboten content or not.

Without that test, you really can't conclusively say whether it is QoS enforcement or politically motivated.

Re: Google is now applying its coronavirus misinformation policies to personal files

#123

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

badlucklottery wrote: post #107
mike503 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, freedom of speech is not guaranteed on a privately owned platform... not sure why anyone expects that.

A lot of "free speech advocates" like to engage in redefinition when it comes to free speech. It becomes some ill-defined ideal that's basically "freedom from consequences of speech" instead of the strict legal definition.

> freedom from consequences of speech

Obviously? Freedom of speech that doesn't protect you from consequences, ex. prison time, is an utterly worthless "freedom".

Re: Google is now applying its coronavirus misinformation policies to personal files

#124

Post by woodruffw »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #123
badlucklottery wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of "free speech advocates" like to engage in redefinition when it comes to free speech. It becomes some ill-defined ideal that's basically "freedom from consequences of speech" instead of the strict legal definition.

> freedom from consequences of speech Obviously? Freedom of speech that doesn't protect you from consequences, ex. prison time, is an utterly worthless "freedom".

I think this is a (willful) misunderstanding of what "consequences" means in the context of the freedom of expression.

"Consequences," colloquially understood, are interpersonal repercussions in one's public and private life. They're a necessary part of the freedom of expression: such a freedom wouldn't be very useful if exercising it had no consequences. They don't include prison time.

Everybody wants those consequences to be personally beneficial, but that's not embedded within the right itself (and can't be, as that would result in a contradiction in terms between equally just and/or lawful expressions).

Re: Google is now applying its coronavirus misinformation policies to personal files

#125

Post by mistermann »

fatbird wrote: post #94
njharman wrote: post #67

Censoring is a losing battle. Because it attacks a symptom. The cure for ignorance is not trying to hide missinformation (that just empowers the spreaders, gives it credence (they wouldn't bother suppressing it if it weren't true), or drives it into dark places you can no longer detect how much of a problem it is). The cure is to educate people and teach them critical thinking (both of which are expensive and honestl…

What's to be done, then, before we reach sufficient education and critical thinking skills? I mean, that's kind of a boil-the-ocean solution, as you observe. When Trump suggested that ingesting bleach could cure COVID-19, 30 people in NY state were hospitalized the next day for drinking bleach. Saying "we should all be sufficiently educated and critical thinkers that misinformation is harmless" is effectively no solu…

I suggest we start publicizing the problem and teaching these skills (critical thinking, epistemically sound thinking and speaking, etc), and using them here.

> I mean, that's kind of a boil-the-ocean solution

It may seem like that, but is it really? Is there some uncertainty involved in the problem space?

> When Trump suggested that ingesting bleach could cure COVID-19, 30 people in NY state were hospitalized the next day for drinking bleach.

If we were to go through the effort of decomposing and explicitly unpacking this sentence, do you think there may be a few epistemic flaws in it, even without taking into account the complexities involved in how others perceive and conceptualize the statement?

> Saying "we should all be sufficiently educated and critical thinkers that misinformation is harmless" is effectively no solution at all. What do we do NOW?

How about we see if the more capable than average minds here at HN are capable of it? This could provide some very valuable insight into how an eventual broader initiative targeting the general public should be designed.

I'm curious to hear objections to this idea...why would doing this right here on HN, perhaps only on an occasional trial basis for designated threads, be a bad idea? And to be clear, I'm not asking whether this is "our responsibility" (it's not) or whether it would "cause us some problems or discomfort" (it surely would), I'm asking for honest, non-evasive answers for why shouldn't we do it? If everyone leaves a problem for someone else to solve, how do we expect it to be solved?

Re: Google is now applying its coronavirus misinformation policies to personal files

#126

Post by KCUOJJQJ »

drummer wrote: post #21
013a wrote: post #5

This is crossing a very bad line, and is absolutely unacceptable. My company of about 50 people on G-Suite will be canceling our subscription and moving to Office 365 within the next three months. We had discussed it in the past due to their history of flagrant disregard for the security and privacy standards we require, but this has galvanized the conversation and we're prioritizing it on the near-term now. I'm sure…

The future is all about self hosting and/or peer to peer technology not controlled by a central authority.

I think the cloud was a dumb idea all along. CDNs are an exception though.

Re: Google is now applying its coronavirus misinformation policies to personal files

#128

Post by makomk »

njharman wrote: post #67

Censoring is a losing battle. Because it attacks a symptom. The cure for ignorance is not trying to hide missinformation (that just empowers the spreaders, gives it credence (they wouldn't bother suppressing it if it weren't true), or drives it into dark places you can no longer detect how much of a problem it is). The cure is to educate people and teach them critical thinking (both of which are expensive and honestl…

I think part of the problem is that the official media-approved narrative on coronavirus-fighting tactics isn't exactly the truth. Like, if you believe the press, the lockdowns and social distancing are a well-established, century-old scientific approach to tackling pandemics and stepping away from them will massively increase the death toll and economic damage. The media position is that even allowing them to be questioned is dangerous and will kill people. In reality, they seem to be a new, previously untested, scientifically controversial approach with little precedent since about the Middle Ages: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/22/us/politics/social-distan...

This is why, even though anti-lockdown ideas are the realm of conspiracy theorists right now, you can't cure them with information even if their proponents did actually base their worldview on it.

I can't see this ending well. There are just too many signs that the media narrative about what works, why, what we need to do, the evidence, and what the costs and consequences are is diverging from reality, and with challenging them so far beyond the pale that leaves conspiracy theorists tying their claims into opposition to vaccines and wild theories about Bill Gates as the main folks questioning it. It's also getting really ugly and partisan, and not just in the US or amongst Trump supporters.

Re: Google is now applying its coronavirus misinformation policies to personal files

#129

Post by jrockway »

chroem- wrote: post #102
mike503 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, freedom of speech is not guaranteed on a privately owned platform... not sure why anyone expects that.

Windows 10 is a free subscription, and users don't necessarily own a license of their operating system. Under this precedent, what is to stop Microsoft from deleting problematic files off of users' computers? After all, it's a privately owned platform.

Windows 10 routinely deletes problematic files from peoples computers; it's called "Windows Defender". Most users are happy to let Microsoft delete malware. The reason that propaganda videos aren't detected as malware because none of these companies give a damn about what you're using your computer or your private storage for. It is a ton of extra work for them to run some censorship side business to specifically annoy conspiracy theorists. The reason that YouTube deletes propaganda videos is because nobody will advertise on them. They cost money to store and serve to viewers, but will never generate revenue. Some are so bad that they drive advertisers away from other videos. All this "censorship" is at the behest of advertisers, or fear of backlash from advertisers.

The thing with YouTube is that its greatest power is its greatest weakness. They let anyone in the world serve 4k or 8k videos to an infinite number of users. They find advertisers for your videos and automatically run their ads on your videos, so that you can get cash money from producing them. And, there is a recommendation engine so that viewers can discover your video and channel. With those advantages, come disadvantages -- the service as a whole is called YouTube, and so a bad video on your channel reflects poorly on other channels and the service as a whole. So they have guidelines to protect their success, at the cost of not making all the advantages available to you. That is why there are "guidelines". I am sure if you buy a Google Cloud account and pay for the transfer and storage of your content, and find your own advertisers to fund it, you can host as many conspiracy theory videos as you want and nobody will stop you. But I think you'll find that you make negative money on this proposition.

(Also, I personally paid $200 for Windows 10, so I'm not sure how people are getting it for free.)

Re: Google is now applying its coronavirus misinformation policies to personal files

#130

Post by pmachinery »

izacus wrote: post #110
Barrin92 wrote: post #61

does anyone know who the people behind the reclaimthenet.org domain are? The headline seems intentionally misleading and the entire article is biased, as seems to be the case for most of the site, almost exlcusively focussing on censorship of fringe figures out of conspiracy and far-right political circles. There is no reference to organisations, writers or editors anywhere on this site if I'm not missing anything.

It even quotes Bezos financed Washington Post as a source of their information. WaPo is full of biased, misleading and downright untrue articles about Google and some other Amazon competitors.

Eh? As it repeatedly states, the Washington Post reported it to Google.
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