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Students are failing AP tests because the College Board can’t handle HEIC images

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Re: Students are failing AP tests because the College Board can’t handle HEIC images

#551

Post by alistairSH »

_snsh wrote: post #507
alistairSH wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By default, both Windows and MacOS hide file extensions. Smart phones almost universally hide them, if they give you a file explorer at all. I suspect most teenagers (and that's what we're talking about here - 17, 18 years olds finishing secondary school) would have a notion that jpg and gif are image formats, and pdf and dcx are a document formats. I suspect few would know much beyond that, and most would not have h…

> I suspect few would know much beyond that, and most would not have had much reason to worry about converting between formats. Ok, first of, why should I (as an institution) care about the people unable to fulfil the conditions of my test? Maybe I only want people with a basic understanding of file formats because chances are they will have less issues with future applications? > They did need to provide detailed in…

It's not the institution giving the test. It's a for-profit corporation that has a de facto monopoly on standardized testing in the US. It's also a company who has been slow to modernize their test (both content, scoring, and process) and has slowly lost the faith of many colleges/unis. And the students are paying for the "privilege" because their test is the gateway to higher ed.

The at-home test format is new. It's usually given in a test center (either private or at the secondary school) with a proctor. Students usually prep for years for this exam, but all that prep would be for the on-site proctored exam. This was new for everybody, and appears to be poorly executed by the company that profits handsomely from these exams.

Based on the article linked, the message went out the day of the exam, after some students were already mid-test. That's not helpful.

Re: Students are failing AP tests because the College Board can’t handle HEIC images

#552

Post by subhobroto »

angryrant1727 wrote: post #266
_bxg1 wrote: post #3

This is the latest in a string of incidents where critical software systems, facing new pressure due to the pandemic, are catastrophically failing their users. I think what's happened in the past is that most public-facing software systems either a) were not really critical (because people had the alternative of doing things in-person), or b) (as in the case of all the ancient COBOL systems underpinning the US gov) h…

It's because the software industry doesn't respect experience. This issue is the kind of thing an experienced engineer with years of building past systems would notice. And they would know how to talk to management so things are done properly. But how are experienced engineers treated? Like shit. As soon as we get older and have families to support, we get leetcoded out of positions since we can't keep up with months…

> It's because the software industry doesn't respect experience

Untrue.

They go and found their own companies.

Silicon valley literally started off with a engineer-manager who left Shockley Semiconductor Laboratory in 1957 to found Fairchild Semiconductor, because William Shockley, while a brilliant academic, was authoritarian and just sucked at managing people.

On the other hand, if the point you are making, is that the software industry simply has to respect experience because a lot of blood, sweat, tears and divorces were weathered by these engineers as they got manipulated and brainwashed - no.

Yes, it sucks that these engineers got manipulated and brainwashed but now they have the experience to detect manipulation and brainwashing and the divorces and health issues were the price they paid to gain this experience.

In summary - the best way to get the value you deserve is to start your own thing. Otherwise, complain all one wants but they will get the minimum someone else can get away with giving.

Everyone wants what is best for them, even your manager and the company they work for, which includes paying as little as possible for the labor they get.

The difference is called profit.

Re: Students are failing AP tests because the College Board can’t handle HEIC images

#554

Post by fulafel »

_snsh wrote: post #473
sib wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A (high school) student who's unwilling to use Safari because of privacy concerns but would be ok using Chrome? That sounds like a serious edge case.

Sadly, it's not. I've had lots students who would use the Opera VPN or one of the "free" anti-virus providers VPNs because they got sold (by adds or dumb friends) that it would be safer. You seriously over-estimate the "tech-savviness" of the average student and that really is part of the issue I'm pointing out here.

For their threat model, they could be right - they could be successfully defending against school network surveillance and/or censorship.

Re: Students are failing AP tests because the College Board can’t handle HEIC images

#555

Post by thaumasiotes »

root_axis wrote: post #550
thaumasiotes wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how you typically write software, but I don't consider it typical for software that opens a file and encounters unexpected input to throw an exception and then delete the file . If an exception is thrown and not caught, the software should stop doing anything.

As I said, the file data was likely popped off the stack automatically, no need to write any extra code.

In your model, what's happening to the data in the file system?

Re: Students are failing AP tests because the College Board can’t handle HEIC images

#556

Post by munk-a »

duskwuff wrote: post #449
munk-a wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a developer I'm totally onboard with Flash having died a while back - and these tools educational suites really shouldn't have anything to do with Flash... All that said, when Apple killed Flash they did it unilaterally and really did break a lot of existing systems, if this pandemic was happening a decade ago I'd absolutely be on an Apple hate train since the sudden drop of support forced people to scramble. At t…

> when Apple killed Flash they did it unilaterally and really did break a lot of existing systems What are you referring to when you say "when Apple killed Flash"? The big outcry was back when Apple made it clear that they would never add Flash support to iOS. But that support never existed in the first place -- one can hardly "kill" something which was never alive. Desktop Safari still supports Flash, for now. It's…

Refusing to support the tech on your platform is killing it. iOS's big selling point, initially, was as a consumption device - a phone with a browser. Deploying your browser without flash was removing some expected support from the norm expected of a browser at that time.

And yea - I agree that flash is dead at this point and I'm quite happy it's gone. Apple actually contributed significantly to the death of flash based advertisements and there is nothing in the world I hated more than those.

Re: Students are failing AP tests because the College Board can’t handle HEIC images

#557

Post by ficklepickle »

tomtomtom1 wrote: post #543
treesprite82 wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does have pretty much exactly that message. The corruption problems came from students seeing that only PNGs/JPGs were allowed, then trying to "convert" the file just by renaming it. What they're doing is the same as 99% of other sites that expect images. But it's probably fair to expect it to be even more streamlined (i.e: clear conversion instructions) given the circumstances of a time-limited exam.

I don't understand why no one is blaming the education system? How is it possible that students that are being considered for "advanced placement" are not familiar with file formats? how horrible and backward your education system must be? This belongs to basic literacy in the modern world. Note we're not speaking about old people who were exposed to files for the first time while they had to balance a family life an…

They don't learn any critical thinking skills. Memorization != learning.

Re: Students are failing AP tests because the College Board can’t handle HEIC images

#558

Post by shrimpx »

treesprite82 wrote: post #480
braythwayt wrote: post #472

A lot of comments are arguing about whether the software should have been modified to accept the HEIC format. Let's go with "no" for the sake of argument. They probably can't accept an mp3 of me singing my answers, either. But! If I upload an HEIC, an mp3, a keynote file, or anything else unacceptable... Why doesn't the site provide an immediate "File format not accepted, please upload .gif, .jpg, or .png" message? A…

It does have pretty much exactly that message. The corruption problems came from students seeing that only PNGs/JPGs were allowed, then trying to "convert" the file just by renaming it. What they're doing is the same as 99% of other sites that expect images. But it's probably fair to expect it to be even more streamlined (i.e: clear conversion instructions) given the circumstances of a time-limited exam.

File extensions have terrible usability. People changing the extension expecting something to be fixed is a classic misunderstanding. Many people do this every day, decades into personal computing.

Re: Students are failing AP tests because the College Board can’t handle HEIC images

#560

Post by RandomGuyDTB »

bscphil wrote: post #436
RandomGuyDTB wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't get so ahead of yourself. Even people in relative poverty, in many cases, have new(er) iPhones, and HEIC is default on my SE, the budget iPhone model from 2016. In high schools you're alienated if you don't have the "blue bubbles"* - although it's stupid, if you're in high school in 2020 you probably need an iPhone, and you can get older models for a relatively small price (my SE was [1] - Source: I currently g…

> if you're in high school in 2020 you probably need an iPhone Not disputing anything else in your comment, but where is this true? I go to (and work at) a fairly prestigious university, and even here it's at best a status symbol, not a "need" of any kind. One of my friends uses a flip phone.

It's a social thing - and a particularly stupid one. If you're ostracized by your peers for having the "green bubble" you're not gonna have great luck asking for the class notes or what Joey got on question 13. iMessage is the messenger of choice for students who don't value privacy or portability.
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