Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Students are failing AP tests because the College Board can’t handle HEIC images

theverge.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

471–480 of 577 posts

Re: Students are failing AP tests because the College Board can’t handle HEIC images

#471

Post by thomasfedb »

_snsh wrote: post #456
judge2020 wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're still supporting that computer knowledge of what image file formats are and how to convert them should be part of the test. They can learn that later when their high school or college makes them take basic computer classes (hopefully), right now they just want to upload their image. Either Apple or College Board is at fault here but it isn't the user.

Yes, if you want to use a cell phone and/or a computer to complete your tasks you should have some basic knowledge about how it operates. You can shift responsibility for that knowledge wherever you want but I would say that at the age between 16 and 19 (which google tells me is the average age for AP classes) I would expect that knowledge from someone applying for AP credit. And if someone didn't know what the accep…

I'm unsure that any of these students wanted to take their AP exams on their phone or computer. That this is a new problem suggests that this is something they've been newly forced to deal with.

It's certainly not a well engineered user experience. Passing a physics test should require physics knowledge, not knowledge of image formats. I think understanding of image formats is actually fairly obscure outside of technical circles.

Re: Students are failing AP tests because the College Board can’t handle HEIC images

#472

Post by braythwayt »

A lot of comments are arguing about whether the software should have been modified to accept the HEIC format.

Let's go with "no" for the sake of argument. They probably can't accept an mp3 of me singing my answers, either. But!

If I upload an HEIC, an mp3, a keynote file, or anything else unacceptable... Why doesn't the site provide an immediate "File format not accepted, please upload .gif, .jpg, or .png" message?

According to the article, the software would actually just hang. I think there's room to argue about whether they need to support the default format of an extremely significant platform for students. I think there's room to argue whether they should know enough about INPUT tags to let the browser help with this.

But while we're arguing about those questions, can't we all agree that simply hanging without providing a useful error message, and without giving the student an opportunity to re-upload their image... Is unacceptably poor software design for an institution that holds people's future in their hands?

I don't know about you, but if I were an American college student, I'd now be wondering what else they have kind of slapped together without thinking through graceful error handling?

Re: Students are failing AP tests because the College Board can’t handle HEIC images

#473

Post by _snsh »

sib wrote: post #467
_snsh wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would be surprised how many students use an iphone and a macbook but are unwilling to use safari (or icloud, photos) because of privacy concerns. If you stay in the "regular" apple workflow everything is fine: iphone camera -> icloud/photos (airdrop/photos) -> safari. If you deviate at certain points though the workflow breaks down. Whose fault is that?

A (high school) student who's unwilling to use Safari because of privacy concerns but would be ok using Chrome? That sounds like a serious edge case.

Sadly, it's not. I've had lots students who would use the Opera VPN or one of the "free" anti-virus providers VPNs because they got sold (by adds or dumb friends) that it would be safer.

You seriously over-estimate the "tech-savviness" of the average student and that really is part of the issue I'm pointing out here.

Re: Students are failing AP tests because the College Board can’t handle HEIC images

#474

Post by braythwayt »

derefr wrote: post #339
bjtitus wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comment was edited to show that iOS does in fact do this. But even if it did send HEIC, if you're going to fail to handle "any" format, then you better specify the one you can handle. By the same token, why shouldn't my computer convert every .docx to PDF, or some other "more universal" format? Instead of specifying the requirement programmatically, they spent their time sending out tweets and writing help docs.

> Instead of specifying the requirement programmatically, they spent their time sending out tweets and writing help docs. Point of order: separate people, with separate/independent/concurrent job responsibilities. It very likely wasn't the programmers tweeting and writing docs. (Heck, I expect that the College Board doesn't even retain any full-time programmers, only contracts with firms for projects.)

Separate people, yes, and we should not blame the people sending out the tweets. But we can hold the organziation they belong to responsible.

It's the same as if Apple shipped me an empty box instead of my iPad Pro. Of course I can't blame the customer support person who takes my call, and I shouldn't be rude to them. But I would still blame Apple the corporation for such a thing, had it happened.

Re: Students are failing AP tests because the College Board can’t handle HEIC images

#475

Post by rs23296008n1 »

This is no different to the College Board not accepting submissions from people who arrived by the subway or rode their bicycle. Or perhaps, used the wrong colored pen. Its at that level of absurdity.

Someone didn't bother doing basic testing. This is ironic because the system itself is a test submission system.

Personally I'd be wanting a full inquiry into this.

But the blame is still squarely on the College Board. They are a organisation that has actually failed in their core mission.

Apple etc shouldn't be the target of any anger. Some random website doesn't support image uploads. Thats the issue. The website should be more resilient. The College Board didn't do their homework. Perhaps they need to study harder and be more diligent? Attention to detail has consequences.

Re: Students are failing AP tests because the College Board can’t handle HEIC images

#476

Post by _snsh »

mmmmmk wrote: post #465
_snsh wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not an explicit category on the test and I never debated that. It might be an implicit requirement though. Just how when you take your drivers test you should actually be able to operate your vehicle and know the laws around operating a motor vehicle aside from the explicit knowledge required from you in the test. But I understand how this might be a foreign concept for someone from the US.

> But I understand how this might be a foreign concept for someone from the US. What? In the US, knowing how to operate your vehicle and the laws around operating a motor vehicle IS the drivers test. Your argument is not reasonable. Knowing the nuances of file formats is irrelevant to AP exams in US History, Calculus, Physics, etc. This is a failure of the administrators to make a proper test. The College Board speci…

[flagged]

Re: Students are failing AP tests because the College Board can’t handle HEIC images

#477

Post by MayorMonty »

danso wrote: post #28
crazygringo wrote: post #4

I thought iOS was supposed to convert HEIC images to JPEG automatically behind-the-scenes in any file transfer situation where HEIC isn't supported. The article itself even says: > iPhones convert HEICs to JPEGs automatically when they’re attached to emails in the Mail app I'm just curious technically why the same didn't happen with the testing portal? If you have a webpage that accepts image uploads, is iOS Safari n…

Would it be correct for iOS Safari to quietly reencode to jpeg when a HEIC file is uploaded via a webform? How would Safari know that the site's backend didn't want an HEIC file? I agree the HEIC thing is very confusing (having set up my parents' phones recently), but I can't see how Apple is to blame. For starters, the College Board could've done a much better job emphasizing this step for iOS users in its instructi…

Yes there was a demo, but it didn't actually submit anything at all. It just mocked through what the exam would look like with timers.

The demo is still up and you can still look at it

Re: Students are failing AP tests because the College Board can’t handle HEIC images

#479

Post by xvector »

II2II wrote: post #52

While it sounds like the College Board may be at fault for some of the issues, like the test timing out when HEIC images were sent or the initial communication of the issue, I wouldn't be so quick to place all of the blame on them. Part of the problem is how we more-or-less glorify an ignorance of technology. This can be seen in both students trying to change the file type by changing the file extension and JPEG bein…

Making the test user-friendly and to fail elegantly is the College Board’s job. That this issue occurred in the first place shows a complete and utter lack of any competent QA whatsoever, any competent programming, and any competent risk management.

The blame is 99% in the CollegeBoard’s hand. It is completely unacceptable for them to fail in this manner. If you are an institution that holds so much power over students’ lives, failures like these must be punished severely, but instead, the Board is getting off with just making the students re-take the exam when they are coming off of their most prepared state.

Re: Students are failing AP tests because the College Board can’t handle HEIC images

#480

Post by treesprite82 »

braythwayt wrote: post #472

A lot of comments are arguing about whether the software should have been modified to accept the HEIC format. Let's go with "no" for the sake of argument. They probably can't accept an mp3 of me singing my answers, either. But! If I upload an HEIC, an mp3, a keynote file, or anything else unacceptable... Why doesn't the site provide an immediate "File format not accepted, please upload .gif, .jpg, or .png" message? A…

It does have pretty much exactly that message. The corruption problems came from students seeing that only PNGs/JPGs were allowed, then trying to "convert" the file just by renaming it.

What they're doing is the same as 99% of other sites that expect images. But it's probably fair to expect it to be even more streamlined (i.e: clear conversion instructions) given the circumstances of a time-limited exam.

Post reply on HN