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Suicides on the rise amid stay-at-home order, Bay Area medical professionals say

abc7news.com

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Re: Suicides on the rise amid stay-at-home order, Bay Area medical professionals say

#31

Post by deathgrips »

postsantum wrote: post #14
deathgrips wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really a paradox because it's understood. Isolation signals to your body that you are being excluded from your tribe or low on the social ladder, which means your world is now more threatening than it used to be, so you need to use more energy to be hyper-vigilant and responsive to stressors.

Social status alters immune regulation and response to infection in macaques https://science.sciencemag.org/content/354/6315/1041.full

Really cool, thanks for the link!

Re: Suicides on the rise amid stay-at-home order, Bay Area medical professionals say

#32

Post by DanBC »

deathgrips wrote: post #5
mehrdadn wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At what point are more people killing themselves than are getting saved by quarantine orders? No one is seriously making this calculation. >> Doctors at John Muir Medical Center in Walnut Creek say they have seen more deaths by suicide during this quarantine period than deaths from the COVID-19 virus. Looks like some people are, and it made the news.

No one in the CDC or state health departments seem to be taking this into account. They're only optimizing for one variable: number of infected and number of covid19 deaths.

No, the CDC will be working hard to understand the rise in rates of death by suicide.

Counting death is hard, and counting suicide death in the US is particularly hard because of the regional variations in use of medical examiners and coroners and the cultural drive in some areas to say that a death by suicide was accidental.

Here's a link to a CDC page: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

> Finally, the estimates of excess deaths reported here may not be due to COVID-19, either directly or indirectly. Upward trends in other causes of death (e.g., suicide, drug overdose, heart disease) may contribute to excess deaths in some jurisdictions. Future analyses of cause-specific excess mortality may provide additional information about these patterns.

Re: Suicides on the rise amid stay-at-home order, Bay Area medical professionals say

#33

Post by DXA9zE »

the-dude wrote: post #28
DXA9zE wrote: post #22

Japan, like the Netherlands, was not "locked down"

Do you happen to live there? I do. Lots of shops closed, WFH for large parts of the population. Schools of all sorts closed, sports club closed, severe limits to groups of people. No hairdressing, no driving-school, I could go on. edit: I am talking about NL

Are you being arrested and criminally charged in Japan for being outside?

Japan is not locked down. California is locked down.

Re: Suicides on the rise amid stay-at-home order, Bay Area medical professionals say

#34

Post by addHocker »

deathgrips wrote: post #10
mehrdadn wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say that as if we've known this since January or something... and as if you have inside knowledge of what those people are investigating right now. Do you? The news on this has just come out. Maybe give them a chance to react before judging?

>You say that as if we've known this since January or something Yes, who could have possibly known about covid19 in January? [0] >and as if you have inside knowledge of what those people are investigating right now. Do you? The news on this has just come out. Maybe give them a chance to react before judging? It doesn't take a genius to figure out that forcing people to stay at home, to socially distance themselves fr…

The social distancing guidelines are a century old- basically adapted to large households.

Re: Suicides on the rise amid stay-at-home order, Bay Area medical professionals say

#35

Post by [deleted] »

DXA9zE wrote: post #33
the-dude wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you happen to live there? I do. Lots of shops closed, WFH for large parts of the population. Schools of all sorts closed, sports club closed, severe limits to groups of people. No hairdressing, no driving-school, I could go on. edit: I am talking about NL

Are you being arrested and criminally charged in Japan for being outside? Japan is not locked down. California is locked down.

[deleted]

Re: Suicides on the rise amid stay-at-home order, Bay Area medical professionals say

#36

Post by DXA9zE »

SimplyUnknown wrote: post #29
DXA9zE wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is true that the Netherlands was not locked down, but people definitely are not going normal about their lives. True, it's even better than normal. Let's not pretend that the extent of California's reaction to the coronavirus is even comparable to that of Netherlands, Japan, etc..

> True, it's even better than normal. That's definitely not true. > Let's not pretend that the extent of California's reaction to the coronavirus is even comparable to that of Netherlands, Japan You are right, it's not. But that wasn't the point. But pretending that California is the only one suffering and taking measures while the Netherlands or Japan are not is also out of touch with reality.

To the extent that it's relevant to the article in the OP, it could sure be better than normal for a lot of people. Working from home where previously it was not available, minimum wage being paid for people forced to stay home. It's basically a forced vacation. I'm sure some business owners are unhappy, but frankly I find reduced suicide rate predictable.

Re: Suicides on the rise amid stay-at-home order, Bay Area medical professionals say

#37

Post by watwut »

DXA9zE wrote: post #33
the-dude wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you happen to live there? I do. Lots of shops closed, WFH for large parts of the population. Schools of all sorts closed, sports club closed, severe limits to groups of people. No hairdressing, no driving-school, I could go on. edit: I am talking about NL

Are you being arrested and criminally charged in Japan for being outside? Japan is not locked down. California is locked down.

Why was this downvoted? It is true that there is difference between "it is illegal to go outside" and "a lot changed, but you still can go for walk or sport".

Re: Suicides on the rise amid stay-at-home order, Bay Area medical professionals say

#38

Post by makomk »

jazzyjackson wrote: post #17
deathgrips wrote: post #2

At what point are more people killing themselves than are getting saved by quarantine orders? No one is seriously making this calculation.

It is the same conflation as "the lockdown hurts the economy"/"an out of control pandemic hurts the economy" Maybe being told to stay indoors spikes hopelessness, or it could be that living in a country with an out of control pandemic with no end in sight spikes hopelessness. There's a lot of factors that make the world a stressful, bleak looking place besides stay at home orders.

We have other pandemics that we could probably test this hypothesis with, but I suspect that it would be more accurate to say that how we see this particular pandemic is what causes both the massive economic damage and the feelings of hopelessness, suicides, etc. Businesses are losing customers not because the government imposed a lockdown, but because people think they can stop the pandemic and avoid death by staying away. Though there's probably not going to be much enthusiasm from the media towards exploring this idea, since it puts the economic damage etc squarely on their heads.

Re: Suicides on the rise amid stay-at-home order, Bay Area medical professionals say

#39

Post by jxramos »

DanBC wrote: post #27
jlangenauer wrote: post #25

One thing to note is that this article quotes one doctor and one nurse at a single hospital. They have obviously seen more suicide attempts than usual, but we must remember this is a single data point and could just be a statistical anomaly. It would be interesting to know if this phenomenon is repeated elsewhere in California or the US, but without knowing that, we can't draw too many conclusions from this article.

We can't draw too many conclusions from the article, but a rise in the rate of suicide would not be a surprise. We know that economic uncertainty, isolation, or lack of access to support all increase deaths by suicide.

Yep, it's interesting we're absorbing costs in known areas to unknown costs in unknown areas. I'd say focus on the known, and get more skeptical about the worst case scenarios we're comparing against. As always the "compared to what" question is sometimes not even an entity in reality for comparison but a hypothetical, maybe driven by fear.

Re: Suicides on the rise amid stay-at-home order, Bay Area medical professionals say

#40

Post by lern_too_spel »

watwut wrote: post #37
DXA9zE wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you being arrested and criminally charged in Japan for being outside? Japan is not locked down. California is locked down.

Why was this downvoted? It is true that there is difference between "it is illegal to go outside" and "a lot changed, but you still can go for walk or sport".

It is not illegal to go outside in California either. Walking, running, bicycling, etc. are encouraged.
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