Note that the Netherlands was not "locked down." Only certain places of business have been suspended, like brothels. People go about their lives as normal.
Suicides on the rise amid stay-at-home order, Bay Area medical professionals say
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Re: Suicides on the rise amid stay-at-home order, Bay Area medical professionals say
#22Japan, like the Netherlands, was not "locked down"
Re: Suicides on the rise amid stay-at-home order, Bay Area medical professionals say
#23Note that the Netherlands was not "locked down." Only certain places of business have been suspended, like brothels. People go about their lives as normal.
I don't know if you live in the Netherlands, but stating "only certain businesses like brothels have been suspended" is a massive understatement of the impact of the "intelligent lockdown" as it is called.
Bars, gyms, schools have been closed for two months now. Only a few restaurants offer take-out and more offer delivery. Dining in is not possible. Work-from-home is default for everyone I know. Nursing homes have only just been allowing visitors again.
It is true that the Netherlands was not locked down, but people definitely are not going normal about their lives.
Re: Suicides on the rise amid stay-at-home order, Bay Area medical professionals say
#24Note that the Netherlands was not "locked down." Only certain places of business have been suspended, like brothels. People go about their lives as normal.
I don't know if you live in the Netherlands, but stating "only certain businesses like brothels have been suspended" is a massive understatement of the impact of the "intelligent lockdown" as it is called. Bars, gyms, schools have been closed for two months now. Only a few restaurants offer take-out and more offer delivery. Dining in is not possible. Work-from-home is default for everyone I know. Nursing homes have o…
> It is true that the Netherlands was not locked down, but people definitely are not going normal about their lives.
True, it's even better than normal.
Let's not pretend that the extent of California's reaction to the coronavirus is even comparable to that of Netherlands, Japan, etc..
Re: Suicides on the rise amid stay-at-home order, Bay Area medical professionals say
#25One thing to note is that this article quotes one doctor and one nurse at a single hospital. They have obviously seen more suicide attempts than usual, but we must remember this is a single data point and could just be a statistical anomaly.
It would be interesting to know if this phenomenon is repeated elsewhere in California or the US, but without knowing that, we can't draw too many conclusions from this article.
Re: Suicides on the rise amid stay-at-home order, Bay Area medical professionals say
#26For an opposite example in Japan the stay-at-home order actually reduced the number of suicides[0]. Maybe mental health treatments being so expensive in the US plays a large role in this and the quarantine is just the trigger. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/14/japan-suicides...
That, or access to said services - which usually depends on the job you have, and many Americans suddenly found themselves without one.
A blogger/psychiatrist shares some examples of how this plays out in general:
https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/04/24/employer-provided-heal...
Relevant in particular are all those examples following the pattern of "$something happened, had to switch insurance, now I can no longer see the doctor that helped me over the years, and the new one starts from scratch/does something that essentially cancels the effects of years of therapy". Now throw in the pandemic, and I can easily imagine this starting to be reflected in suicide rates.
Re: Suicides on the rise amid stay-at-home order, Bay Area medical professionals say
#27One thing to note is that this article quotes one doctor and one nurse at a single hospital. They have obviously seen more suicide attempts than usual, but we must remember this is a single data point and could just be a statistical anomaly. It would be interesting to know if this phenomenon is repeated elsewhere in California or the US, but without knowing that, we can't draw too many conclusions from this article.
We can't draw too many conclusions from the article, but a rise in the rate of suicide would not be a surprise. We know that economic uncertainty, isolation, or lack of access to support all increase deaths by suicide.
Re: Suicides on the rise amid stay-at-home order, Bay Area medical professionals say
#28Japan, like the Netherlands, was not "locked down"
Do you happen to live there? I do.
Lots of shops closed, WFH for large parts of the population. Schools of all sorts closed, sports club closed, severe limits to groups of people. No hairdressing, no driving-school, I could go on.
edit: I am talking about NL
Re: Suicides on the rise amid stay-at-home order, Bay Area medical professionals say
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't know if you live in the Netherlands, but stating "only certain businesses like brothels have been suspended" is a massive understatement of the impact of the "intelligent lockdown" as it is called. Bars, gyms, schools have been closed for two months now. Only a few restaurants offer take-out and more offer delivery. Dining in is not possible. Work-from-home is default for everyone I know. Nursing homes have o…
> It is true that the Netherlands was not locked down, but people definitely are not going normal about their lives. True, it's even better than normal. Let's not pretend that the extent of California's reaction to the coronavirus is even comparable to that of Netherlands, Japan, etc..
> True, it's even better than normal.
That's definitely not true.
> Let's not pretend that the extent of California's reaction to the coronavirus is even comparable to that of Netherlands, Japan
You are right, it's not. But that wasn't the point. But pretending that California is the only one suffering and taking measures while the Netherlands or Japan are not is also out of touch with reality.
Re: Suicides on the rise amid stay-at-home order, Bay Area medical professionals say
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
>You say that as if we've known this since January or something Yes, who could have possibly known about covid19 in January? [0] >and as if you have inside knowledge of what those people are investigating right now. Do you? The news on this has just come out. Maybe give them a chance to react before judging? It doesn't take a genius to figure out that forcing people to stay at home, to socially distance themselves fr…
Come on dude. "Known this" in my sentence was not referring to "the existence of COVID-19" but rather "the fact that we would start seeing more suicides than disease deaths today ". The right choice was shutting things down. The only question was how long it needs to keep going, which people were still trying to figure out. Now this event might give them more information that might help them figure it out. If you're…
>The right choice was shutting things down . . . You know full well much of the rest of the executive didn't show remotely as much competence as the CDC about the disease itself for months despite being repeatedly warned even after the outbreak had already occurred
This is some "we have always been at war with Eastasia" doublethink. The CDC told people for a long, long time that masks were harmful and using them was stupid. The CDC shut down private and university covid19 testing in Washington.
> and now you're lashing out at the CDC for not having predicted when the first side effects would start to occur in some cities within 1 day of when you heard the news?
Ask your doctor if job loss and isolation from friends and family is a risk factor for suicide. I talked to a doctor back in early March who predicted that more people would die from suicides than from covid19.