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My fellow geeks, we need to have a talk.

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Re: My fellow geeks, we need to have a talk.

#231

Post by etruong42 »

sophacles wrote: post #74

I'm reminded of something a wise man once told me (HNified a bit): In every pairwise conversation there are 6 people: 1. Alice 2. Bob 3. Who Alice thinks she is. 4. Who Bob thinks he is. 5. Who Bob thinks Alice is 6. Who Alice things Bob is. Perception plays an absurdly large part in communication, as do nonverbal cues. Frequently we adjust our message based on feedback we get from the listener. Those lacking "social…

I don't believe the number of perceptions can be enumerated that simply. "Who Alice thinks Bob thinks he is" and "Who Alice thinks Bob thinks she is" plays a role, and then the rabbit hole just gets deeper.

Re: My fellow geeks, we need to have a talk.

#232

Post by danssig »

kiiski wrote: post #172
AndyKelley wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the risk of sounding dense... So did he imply that he was betting $60 million on the flip of a coin? I don't get why he would do that?

According to wikipedia, he was worth 6,5 billion. So probably the $60 million just didn't matter to him so much.

But that means it's not a fair bet. Had I been in the situation and had some idea of his value I would have said: "Very well, all my money versus all of yours. I choose tails."

Re: My fellow geeks, we need to have a talk.

#233

Post by arcwhite »

chrisrhoden wrote: post #227
arcwhite wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, by that logic, we should abandon all labels altogether. Down with identification of groups of people! Cast off the oppressive shackles of classification! Down here in Australia, "Hipsters" are an easily recognizable and quite specific cultural subgroup: Thick-rim glasses, no actual vision impediment to justify them, Impractically skinny jeans, Borderline offensively cliched facial hair (ie. Hercule Poirot-esque…

Frankly, we have made efforts for quite a while to eliminate classifications which are used solely to put people down. While it is true that hipster is not as offensive as some other classifying words and carries none of the historical baggage, it has become a slur, nothing more. What you've described sounds like a caricature. While it is possible that the more nuanced culture formed elsewhere and was made extreme on…

Mmm. Thinking about it, I can't think of a positive connotation of the word "hipster", or even a neutral one, so given that; you're right - it's become a slur, and probably worth abandoning as a term.

I realise what I'm describing sounds like a caricature. I wish I was simply being snarky, but spend 10 minutes at a bar on Brunswick Street in Fitzroy, Melbourne and you'd definitely witness what I describe. There are quite a significant proportion of people in that area who do indeed dress as described (for whatever reason) and who will hold conversations - at length - about the invalidity of any artistic endeavour that gives itself over to financial motivation.

I neither agree nor disagree with them on that point, but I feel I certainly have more productive things to talk about!

I think the usage of the word has probably varied within Australia from its usage in the US. Certainly when I read articles in Wired about 'hipster' culture, I'm left scratching my head (behaviours or purchasing patterns they describe therein tend to amount to the local use of the word 'trendy', which is rarely construed as an insult).

There's probably a PhD in sociological studies to be gained from the comparative usage of that word in Australia vs. the US. :P

Re: My fellow geeks, we need to have a talk.

#234

Post by danssig »

nollidge wrote: post #96
joliss wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seem to recall that there are studies showing that venting isn't an effective tool to make you feel better, despite the popular "catharsis" meme. I can't find them right now, but here's a quote: http://www.bakadesuyo.com/a-few-more-things-pop-psychology-h... In any case, if somebody feels the need to vent, I hope they don't do it where I end up reading them. ^^

There was an episode of Penn & Teller's Bullshit that pretty much says the same. If you have Netflix streaming, it's Episode 10 here: http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/Penn_Teller_Bullsh_t_Seaso...

Penn & Teller? Talk about being condescending and passing on negativity!

Re: My fellow geeks, we need to have a talk.

#235

Post by detst »

cakeface wrote: post #150
mgns wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully just one generation as being an ass may stop them from getting along with the opposite sex and reproduce...

Unfortunately being an ass is frequently a great way to get laid. Nice guys finish last and all...

This is such BS and makes me sigh every time I hear it.

It's not being an ass that gets them laid, it's the other characteristics that an asshole typically has that gets them laid. Things like confidence, not coming off desperate and having experience not just approaching a girl but being able to hold a conversation... and the many more things that increase attraction but these are the basics.

These characteristics in a nice guy will get him laid more than the asshole and he'll have opportunities with girls that see right through the asshole (and some would say these are the more desirable women).

Re: My fellow geeks, we need to have a talk.

#236

Post by generalk »

agentultra wrote: post #211
count wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I empathize with what you are saying, but I don't agree. I think it's crucial to recognize the difference between what I'm talking about, and what happens when people with experience make mistakes. Environment matters, tremendously. If you're an amateur hack, selling your 3rd rate skills to customers who don't know any better, and you're lack of capability is hurting people because your software is being exploited, t…

I think we're really talking about two different issues. I'm not even talking about doing something as silly as charging a client money for something you barely know how to do. That's just deceptive business practice and people should be lambasted for it. Misrepresenting your capabilities is reprehensible. What I'm talking about and what I think the OP was talking about is the negative attitude we have towards our fe…

My original point was that it's not necessarily "deceptive business practice."

For example: when I first built my buddy's business site, I wasn't knowingly half-assing his work, or attempting to extract maximum profit for minimum work. I was giving a good faith best-effort, which unfortunately (and unbeknownst to either of us) was well generally below accepted practices.

Now, should someone have yelled at me and told me I was an idiot and shouldn't have been developing production sites? Maybe. Certainly, if we'd been exploited. It's easy to look on everyone with rose-tinted glasses until you accidentally cause your best friend's business to fail.

Re: My fellow geeks, we need to have a talk.

#237

Post by jhamburger »

detst wrote: post #235
cakeface wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately being an ass is frequently a great way to get laid. Nice guys finish last and all...

This is such BS and makes me sigh every time I hear it. It's not being an ass that gets them laid, it's the other characteristics that an asshole typically has that gets them laid. Things like confidence, not coming off desperate and having experience not just approaching a girl but being able to hold a conversation... and the many more things that increase attraction but these are the basics. These characteristics i…

I wish this were true. Well, you're not completely wrong- An outright asshole is getting by on confidence alone. But a guy who is polite but disarmingly arrogant, condescending in subtle ways, is much more desirable than a confident nice guy.

Re: My fellow geeks, we need to have a talk.

#238

Post by loup-vaillant »

derleth wrote: post #118
nhangen wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That comment: "The problem is that when people start mouthing off about factual issues they don't know anything about they can cause a lot of damage, so crushing them is often a necessity." Is exactly the type of thing that comes from the hive mind, and is why it's impossible to be a dissenter. It's usually "you don't know what you are talking about," followed by bashing until the person takes their ball and goes hom…

> It's usually "you don't know what you are talking about," followed by bashing until the person takes their ball and goes home. I agree that if it's just that kind of content-free junk, it's pointless. However, if the beatdown comes with a factual and logical refutation of the idiot's points, or at least a link to a site that has such a refutation, then it performs the inestimable service of educating the lurkers. F…

> And, heck, we might even convince the anti-vaxxer. It could happen.

To do so, make sure you only crush the the mistake, without beating the person down. Not easy to do without de-emphasising your point though:

"You say that 2+2=5, but I think you might be misinformed…" The more direct "No, 2+2=4. II+II=IIII. 1,2,3,4." might be perceived as too blunt, especially if the context is emotional (children, programming languages…).

Re: My fellow geeks, we need to have a talk.

#239

Post by loup-vaillant »

scott_s wrote: post #130
Alex3917 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Then there are the people who are dicks and want to crush people who they disagree with." The problem is that when people start mouthing off about factual issues they don't know anything about they can cause a lot of damage, so crushing them is often a necessity. When you're in a situation where there is a lot of potential for damage and the other person isn't willing to have an intellectually honest debate about th…

My problem with that attitude is that it's not humble. Not in a false, pretending-to-not-be-good way, but systematically not acknowledging that you may be wrong. Say what you think is correct, but always conduct yourself knowing you may be wrong.

There are degrees of certainties. If for instance one of your beliefs is based on crushing evidence, then changing your mind on that matter will require super-crushing evidence. If someone comes and assert the contrary of your belief without presenting evidence, you should believe the other person is wrong.

Wrong beliefs are often dangerous (an extreme case would be believing that prayers are better than western medicine at curing most illnesses). So your duty is to convince the other person, or at least control the damage.

Now of course, if you do see that super-crushing evidence against your previously strongly held belief, then your duty is to change your mind. The most difficult part here is correctly assessing the weight of each piece evidence, and how they interact.

Re: My fellow geeks, we need to have a talk.

#240

Post by detst »

jhamburger wrote: post #237
detst wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such BS and makes me sigh every time I hear it. It's not being an ass that gets them laid, it's the other characteristics that an asshole typically has that gets them laid. Things like confidence, not coming off desperate and having experience not just approaching a girl but being able to hold a conversation... and the many more things that increase attraction but these are the basics. These characteristics i…

I wish this were true. Well, you're not completely wrong- An outright asshole is getting by on confidence alone. But a guy who is polite but disarmingly arrogant, condescending in subtle ways, is much more desirable than a confident nice guy.

> [...] disarmingly arrogant, condescending in subtle ways [...]

Nice guy equivalent: playful teasing and flirting. Someone eavesdropping might even take it out of context and interpret it as arrogant or condescending but it's just a little game -- not in some "pick up artist" sense; it's ideally very natural. Works for me.

While we can argue all day long about what makes for the most desirable man, I still contend that you can have more (desirable) women want you than you could possibly ever get around to and be a nice guy.

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