An Amazon programmer’s perspective (2015) • Hacker News Board

Re: An Amazon programmer’s perspective (2015)

#51

Post by jedberg » Thu, May 21, 2020, 7:25 PM UTC

dlp211 wrote: post #34

google234123 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Payroll tax? The website should be taxamazonworkers.net

Payroll taxes may or may not be borne by the worker. Oversimplifying tax burden is a dishonest argument that is consistently perpetuated.

Payroll taxes are always borne by the worker. They may not make the payments, but when I hire people, I set aside an all-in budget, and their salary is whatever is left after benefits and taxes. If the payroll tax goes up, it means their raise is smaller.

That's how every business works. All per employee costs are borne by the employee one way or another.

Re: An Amazon programmer’s perspective (2015)

#52

Post by un_montagnard » Thu, May 21, 2020, 7:25 PM UTC

Barrin92 wrote: post #18

The on call stuff sounds outright dystopian to me, it's not even legal in my country. More places should think about adopting something akin to France's El Khomri law's ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_disconnect ) and ensure that every citizen has enough time to recuperate from work and isn't pestered by their employer 24/7.

My friend (not working at Amazon) was oncall in France in 2019.

Re: An Amazon programmer’s perspective (2015)

#53

Post by teej » Thu, May 21, 2020, 7:25 PM UTC

bambataa wrote: post #41

Anyone working over their contracted hours needs to realise they're being exploited by their employer. Sometimes this is justified: we pay more than the going rate because we expect you to step up occasionally. Maybe it's kind of expected with Amazon in particular. But when it descends into perma death march and your manager flings you "a few" days holiday in recompense... does that make up for it? If it doesn't, to…

These employees do not have employment contracts and do not have hours that are set by a contract.

Re: An Amazon programmer’s perspective (2015)

#54

Post by endlessmike89 » Thu, May 21, 2020, 7:25 PM UTC

>Be upfront and as precise as possible with what a position entails. "Working alongside smart and passionate people" is lazy hiring.

I understand that this person was coming straight out of school, but the onus is on the applicant to figure out more about the job during the interview process.

Re: An Amazon programmer’s perspective (2015)

#55

Post by cbanek » Thu, May 21, 2020, 7:25 PM UTC

ignoramous wrote: post #32

rdiddly wrote: post #17

"If paged, you have 15 minutes to get online and respond to the page. If you don’t, your manager is paged. You do NOT want this to happen." I want it to happen. I'd like a word.

> I want it to happen. I'd like a word. You could be shown the door in no-time. Amazon has forced attrition and the manager decides who gets the cull. They may make a mountain out of a mole to further their objectives.

As someone who came from a similar environment (MSFT during the stack ranking days), the forced attrition and manager's arbitrarily blackballing employees are the ingredients of the toxic stew. If a manager hates your guts, there's really nothing you can do, even if you are great at your job.

Re: An Amazon programmer’s perspective (2015)

#56

Post by dudul » Thu, May 21, 2020, 7:26 PM UTC

ignoramous wrote: post #32

rdiddly wrote: post #17

"If paged, you have 15 minutes to get online and respond to the page. If you don’t, your manager is paged. You do NOT want this to happen." I want it to happen. I'd like a word.

> I want it to happen. I'd like a word. You could be shown the door in no-time. Amazon has forced attrition and the manager decides who gets the cull. They may make a mountain out of a mole to further their objectives.

> Amazon has forced attrition

Do you know how they implement it? Is it the old Microsoft model with obligatory bell curve distribution of performance reviews?

Re: An Amazon programmer’s perspective (2015)

#57

Post by MattGaiser » Thu, May 21, 2020, 7:26 PM UTC

samirillian wrote: post #4

This is what I don't understand. When Tbray left, he said he was doing so in solidarity with the distribution center types, but he held to the line that AWS was great. This despite nightmare stories like this one regularly bubbling up, and I've heard similar from friends. What is it about tech culture that people within it refuse to admit the level of abuse-by-design that happens at these companies? Is it that they w…

> What is it about tech culture that people within it refuse to admit the level of abuse-by-design that happens at these companies?

The Amazon example is extreme, but a lot of tech workers fit the stereotype of people who don't have a lot else to do.

I spend 100+ hours at my computer a week, so if you want long hours, I can live with that.

I am up at 1AM anyway, so if you need something done at that time, sure. I just need to switch to my remote desktop.

I have colleagues and friends who will log in on weekends or evenings out of boredom to do work. No pressure to do it, but they just want something to do.

I fill my time with internet commenting and various online contests, but if they need help at 9PM, I am fine with jumping on the VPN to help and have done that a few times myself.

Amazon still has problems beyond the long hours and the 3AM calls, but there are people ok with those things or at least ok enough with them to not put up a fuss.

Re: An Amazon programmer’s perspective (2015)

#58

Post by filoleg » Thu, May 21, 2020, 7:27 PM UTC

arkitaip wrote: post #43

AnHonestComment wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s worth pointing out why it needs to be “revived”: because the first iteration of the tax would have destroyed grocery stores and was protested by construction unions due to its disastrous policy. This iteration is targeting the 800 largest employers in Seattle, many of whom aren’t currently profitable. “Tax Amazon” is classic dishonesty — neither bill has been focused on Amazon, both would be a disaster for Seatt…

Amazon PR at its finest.

Must be why all those small businesses that got affected (like the long-running local Bartell Drugs chain [0]) were protesting on the streets against this tax once it was implemented (shortly before it was repealed).

Writing off the opposition as solely "pro-amazon shills" is exactly what gets those bs laws passed in the first place. I wonder how much money was wasted on all of this, given that it was repealed shortly after. Seems to be very in-line with how wastefully Seattle City Council has been running things.

0. https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/seattle/enough-is-e...

Re: An Amazon programmer’s perspective (2015)

#59

Post by pkamb » Thu, May 21, 2020, 7:27 PM UTC

I've never understood how their Apple TV apps (Amazon Prime Video, Twitch, etc.) are so bad.

If the Prime TV app was better I'd honestly probably cancel Netflix. But as-is I avoid using it completely.

Then I interviewed for a mobile position at Amazon. Now I understand. A Facebook iOS recruiter laughed at my experience.

Re: An Amazon programmer’s perspective (2015)

#60

Post by sokoloff » Thu, May 21, 2020, 7:28 PM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #51

dlp211 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Payroll taxes may or may not be borne by the worker. Oversimplifying tax burden is a dishonest argument that is consistently perpetuated.

Payroll taxes are always borne by the worker. They may not make the payments, but when I hire people, I set aside an all-in budget, and their salary is whatever is left after benefits and taxes. If the payroll tax goes up, it means their raise is smaller. That's how every business works. All per employee costs are borne by the employee one way or another.

Exactly. There's no such thing as totally "free shipping" or "free returns" either. One way or another, the customer is paying for it.