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Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income

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Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income

#161
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yang definitely waffled on MFA and appeared to not support it towards the end. That was something of him that I was disappointed - I couldn't understand why he didn't realize that MFA is the way to go. I do wonder if he waffled on it to retain support from people further to the right. That said, I actually think Yang's ideas are going to reverberate throughout political discourse over the next decade. Similar to how…

What is MFA?

Medicare For All I'm assuming

Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income

#162

Years ago, proponents of UBI claimed that it was a replacement for all other forms of social welfare. Now it appears by most proposals to be yet another means-tested add-on. What happened?

People studied the UBI idea and recognized the costs of giving money to everyone are so enormous that it's unworkable. That's there the means testing has come in to try to limit that.

Something more like a "guaranteed minimum income" where you can't have less money than what is required to have a good standard of living is a cheaper and more effective idea that accomplishes the same goals of ending poverty.

Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income

#163

If the government starts giving me enough money each month to subsist while drastically raising taxes on my earnings from employment then I'll simply stop working. I would imagine most people would do the same.

If the government provided food, shelter, and video games, I expect quite a few people would see no purpose in working. Also the surfers and backpackers.

Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income

#164
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here but I really wish he wouldn't kowtow every time some wackjob group is screaming at him. He took a very moderate and reasonable stance on a lot of contentious topics during his campaign then rolled them back within a day of getting lit up by twitter trolls. I think he lost a large section of centrist voters by appearing spineless. He took the best policies from the left and right, but also seemed obligated t…

Yang definitely waffled on MFA and appeared to not support it towards the end. That was something of him that I was disappointed - I couldn't understand why he didn't realize that MFA is the way to go. I do wonder if he waffled on it to retain support from people further to the right. That said, I actually think Yang's ideas are going to reverberate throughout political discourse over the next decade. Similar to how…

Quarantine has accelerated forecasted job loss. Whether we return to baseline by next year, a lot of companies are going to take this opportunity to lean out without fear of backlash.

Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income

#165

If the government starts giving me enough money each month to subsist while drastically raising taxes on my earnings from employment then I'll simply stop working. I would imagine most people would do the same.

very few people wish to subsist. most humans want a lifestyle that is similar to or better than that of the people that they socialize with

Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income

#166
post #157

UBI only makes sense in the science fiction world that Andrew Yang and other non-technical journalists think is somehow imminent. We still need people to make things. There are still guys hanging off the side of garbage trucks every day and people still pick fruits by hand. If no one does these things, you will starve and die. We cannot survive forever on financial engineering by bureaucrats and importing all our nec…

This is anecdotal but I haven’t seen guys hanging off garbage trucks in a long time. Around here it’s just one guy with a hydraulic arm on the truck that picks up the cans and dumps out garbage, and he does it very very efficiently. Pretty soon it should be possible to even replace the driver with a self driving truck that goes around pre determined paths in the neighborhood.

Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income

#167

Years ago, proponents of UBI claimed that it was a replacement for all other forms of social welfare. Now it appears by most proposals to be yet another means-tested add-on. What happened?

> What happened?

Somebody did the math.

Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income

#168
post #32
post #8

Which is incredibly charitable! Opponents to UBI only oppose the income source being tax; which is a forced wealth transfer (opposite of my money my choice).

I'm a leftist person who isn't an opponent of ubi, but is an opponent of Yang's ubi. I have no problem with raising taxes, but I do have other concerns. Namely, if everyone got $x,xxx a month, how do we ensure that rents don't just go up by that amount or wages don't go down by that amount? I worry that without a well thought out plan, UBI just ends up funneling money directly back to the wealthy (eg, landlords and b…

Yeah the best solution is that we, as in our local governments, should be our own landlords and own more of the property that we rent out. Not just housing for the poor, but for every spectrum of wealth. If rental housing is such a good investment, then let's get in on it ourselves.

Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income

#169
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A small nit: "Original Medicare" isn't really a UBI because you don't really get to choose your healthcare. A key benefit of a UBI is that the government provides cash to buy goods & services, rather than providing the goods & services themselves. Medicare is a government-run service, where the service is a combination of catastrophic insurance, cost-sharing, and general payment. Medicare Part C, or Medicare Advantag…

Fair context to provide. In a previous comment [1], I argue the case for keeping both UBI and single payer healthcare. Cash alone makes a poor safety net, because humans are humans. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23246811

Agree, but I'd push back on the "single payer healthcare" bit and say that "Single payer" is not the only way to deliver universal healthcare. Germany, Switzerland, Netherlands, Singapore all have thriving multi-payer systems. In Switzerland and the Netherlands, ALL insurance is private. In Singapore, while the government covers catastrophic care, 70% of total health expenditures are private.

The common theme is that there is some degree of government intervention and regulation, but having the government be the sole payer is definitely an approach, but it's by no means the only approach, nor even the best approach.

Re: Jack Dorsey is giving Andrew Yang $5M to build the case for a basic income

#170
UBI (in the U.S.) would be like printing more shares of a publicly-traded stock and giving all of the new stock to the employees of the company.

USD is the reserve currency, so foreign interests (or large corps) w/ stockpiles of USD will be the losers due to inflation.

Foreign interests can change which reserve currency they use at-will, so wouldn't this be like a direct-fee/dividend U.S. citizens (or any UBI-country citizens) could charge those that use the currency of the country but don't live there?

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