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Kiss Linux – A distribution with a focus on less is more

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Re: Kiss Linux – A distribution with a focus on less is more

#31

Post by nerdponx »

pampa wrote: post #18
danielscrubs wrote: post #13

I loved the idea (git everything!) until I read this: "How do I remove a package and all of its dependencies? [...] The package manager does not do recursive dependency removal on removal of a package. This error-prone automation will not be added to the package manager. "

This might seem like a limitation. But you can provide a base system with a toolchain & xorg with known dependencies and a limited set of packages (like a BSD base system). Then for every big and complex app clone that base system and build the app in a chroot/sandbox or container. That way you get the app and dont pollute the base system and uninstalling is just rm -rf On every distro uninstalling packages never rea…

Apt autoremove seems to do a pretty decent job.

Re: Kiss Linux – A distribution with a focus on less is more

#32

Post by t0astbread »

pampa wrote: post #18
danielscrubs wrote: post #13

I loved the idea (git everything!) until I read this: "How do I remove a package and all of its dependencies? [...] The package manager does not do recursive dependency removal on removal of a package. This error-prone automation will not be added to the package manager. "

This might seem like a limitation. But you can provide a base system with a toolchain & xorg with known dependencies and a limited set of packages (like a BSD base system). Then for every big and complex app clone that base system and build the app in a chroot/sandbox or container. That way you get the app and dont pollute the base system and uninstalling is just rm -rf On every distro uninstalling packages never rea…

Isn't this basically what Docker is for?

Re: Kiss Linux – A distribution with a focus on less is more

#33

Post by microtonal »

pampa wrote: post #21
stargaz3r wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>On every distro uninstalling packages never really reverts the system to its previous state, always leaves some junk behind. That's not true at all. See Nix package manager (and NixOS the distro).

nix is more like installing every package in its own chroot, with a few optimizations. not your starnard linux package manager

That's too much of a simplification. In NixOS you still have global configuration files, such as /etc/fstab. However, they are symlinks to Nix store paths that are associated with the current generation.

    $ realpath /etc/fstab
    /nix/store/06k708q78zxw8922rrrc8mmp5gbin4am-etc-fstab
However, NixOS installations can also end up accumulating configuration and state files that stick around when they are not defined declaratively. E.g. if you enable ssh, host keys are generated in /etc/ssh. Even if you disable ssh, these files will stick around.

You can avoid such accidental state [1], since NixOS will happily boot from a filesystem with just /boot and /nix and reconstruct the rest upon system activation. But it is quite a bit of work, since you need to manually specify what state you want to preserve (e.g. SSH host key files). Also, it currently does not work nicely with some systemd units that barf out if you make /var/run entries symlinks.

[1] https://grahamc.com/blog/erase-your-darlings

Re: Kiss Linux – A distribution with a focus on less is more

#34

Post by microtonal »

stargaz3r wrote: post #20
pampa wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might seem like a limitation. But you can provide a base system with a toolchain & xorg with known dependencies and a limited set of packages (like a BSD base system). Then for every big and complex app clone that base system and build the app in a chroot/sandbox or container. That way you get the app and dont pollute the base system and uninstalling is just rm -rf On every distro uninstalling packages never rea…

>On every distro uninstalling packages never really reverts the system to its previous state, always leaves some junk behind. That's not true at all. See Nix package manager (and NixOS the distro).

By and large yes. However, even on NixOS there can be various leftovers in the form of state files in /var and configuration files in /etc (outside the majority, which are managed through Nix). Unless you nuke most of the root filesystem on every boot [1].

[1] https://grahamc.com/blog/erase-your-darlings

Re: Kiss Linux – A distribution with a focus on less is more

#36

Post by wchar_t »

danielscrubs wrote: post #13

I loved the idea (git everything!) until I read this: "How do I remove a package and all of its dependencies? [...] The package manager does not do recursive dependency removal on removal of a package. This error-prone automation will not be added to the package manager. "

Well, then again, many other package managers don't either. For instance XBPS and Pacman.

EDIT: I'm wrong, see below.

Re: Kiss Linux – A distribution with a focus on less is more

#37

Post by sergeykish »

Firefox ALSA backend is no longer supported [0], disabled by default (--enable-alsa), not deprecated yet [1]. Need to fix while we can.

Hope you enabled Telemetry [2], bonus - it produces nice graphs [3].

[0] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1345661

[1] https://github.com/kinetiknz/cubeb/wiki/Backend-Support

[2] about:telemetry

[3] https://data.firefox.com/

Re: Kiss Linux – A distribution with a focus on less is more

#38

Post by natrys »

wchar_t wrote: post #36
danielscrubs wrote: post #13

I loved the idea (git everything!) until I read this: "How do I remove a package and all of its dependencies? [...] The package manager does not do recursive dependency removal on removal of a package. This error-prone automation will not be added to the package manager. "

Well, then again, many other package managers don't either. For instance XBPS and Pacman. EDIT: I'm wrong, see below.

But they do? (e.g. xbps-remove -R/--recursive )

Re: Kiss Linux – A distribution with a focus on less is more

#39

Post by Boulth »

wchar_t wrote: post #36
danielscrubs wrote: post #13

I loved the idea (git everything!) until I read this: "How do I remove a package and all of its dependencies? [...] The package manager does not do recursive dependency removal on removal of a package. This error-prone automation will not be added to the package manager. "

Well, then again, many other package managers don't either. For instance XBPS and Pacman. EDIT: I'm wrong, see below.

Pacman can remove dependencies that are not used: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Pacman/Tips_and_tricks#...

This is explicit rather than implicit but it works even on one package.

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