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Linux touchpad: preliminary project funding, survey results

bill.harding.blog

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Re: Linux touchpad: preliminary project funding, survey results

#111
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, Apple really nailed it with that choice. Not only can you use GUI key combos in the terminal, but also you can use terminal line editing key combos in the GUI. That's something that seems like it ought to be possible in Linux, but afaik it is not.

One thing one my wish list of things that will probably never happen is an extensible EMACs, Jupyter hybrid with a full on highly extensible dependently typed programming language. By keeping the specification of the components as abstract as possible, one could reinterpret the same code to give a completely different and customizable user experience. Probably with a lens based GUI toolkit for interactive widgets. I…

How would Emacs with a typed programming language work with function redefinition?

One of the benefits of the environment is I can change code very easily and see the changes quickly. But with types I'm not sure how you'd change the signature of a function and get it to recompile if it's already used elsewhere.

Re: Linux touchpad: preliminary project funding, survey results

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd think "surely a touchpad is a touchpad", but the reality for most heavy users is that Apple really does have an experience substantially better than most in this area. Large tracking surface. No dead zones, which can't be touched or tapped. Fantastic palm rejection. Gestures that work reliably, and never over or under-detect fingers. Its not really to say that the Apple trackpads are better at their best than t…

I've noticed that two-finger scrolling, which should be one of the easiest things to get right, is wrong on basically anything that's not MacOS. Windows and Linux arbitrarily insist on 3-line scrolling in a lot of apps. Even when pixel scrolling is technically available, it works poorly. It appears small movements are ignored, and then once you've hit some sort of distance threshold the scroll "jumps" to register the…

Actually on Windows, 3 line scrolling is a configurable default in the control panel. On X/Linux, on the other hand, is where it's hard-coded to 1 line and there is no way to change it to 3 without having undesired side effects (such as scroll events being fired 3 times).

Re: Linux touchpad: preliminary project funding, survey results

#113

This is still the most frustrating thing about Linux for me. I have two Thinkpads, a T460 running Windows from my employer, and a T560 running Ubuntu as my personal. Their touchpad hardware is, of course, identical. The experiences couldn't be more different. When I first got the machine, I spent weeks fighting with the driver, trying to figure out how a single number can represent four lines on two dimensions to def…

Am I the only one who finds the Synaptics trackpads on many laptops are simply a nightmare in itself regardless of the operating system due to the physical design? Not all Synaptics trackpads are created equal, on some machines, the surface friction just doesn't feel correct, making the pointer acceleration difficult to control. I know I was probably using it wrong and I should've spent an hour tweaking the parameters in the Synaptics Windows Driver, but I don't really know what's the best for me. Even worse, some Synaptics trackpads have cheap plastic that worn out after a year or so, creating an uneven friction, making the navigation a difficult experience. I know I could replace it, but making the touchpad as a consumable item is not a good design. Also, on many ultralight machines, the available space is simply too small to have an adequate space for plamrest.

Finally, as a matter of personal preference, I found clicking the button on the touchpad is never a good experience - the pad is clickable, but only on its edge, or you could touch-click, but you need to constantly lifting your finger. The touch gestures are confusing as well, to this day I never figured out any of the gesture I could use. The device driver really should come with an animated tutorial. The only feature I found was scrolling at the edge or double-finger scrolling, but it's only useful if you want to scroll a few lines, rolling the entire page is a tiresome experience (unlike the middle-button scrolling on a TrackPoint).

As a result, I only use the TrackPoint on Thinkpad laptops. Although the TrackPoint is not completely free from the pointer acceleration issue in general on Linux (although I never found it to be an issue for me), the overall usability is much better because it doesn't have the physical design issues.

Re: Linux touchpad: preliminary project funding, survey results

#114
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also spend many hours per day on the computer, both for work and leisure, and for this reason I have invested money and time finding high quality: chair, desk, monitors, headphones, mouse and keyboard. I understand that not everyone has the luxury of space for a full WFH setup but I can't imagine doing 8-10 hours per day with only a 14" laptop at the kitchen table. This is why, for me, a Mac quality trackpad experi…

Interestingly I've been using a 12" laptop as my daily driver with a crappy chair, desk and earbuds and no monitor for over two years and I've had no cardiovascular problems so far. Stressed people are quick to blame their environment (tools and whatnot) but fail to take a hard look at themselves.

Same here, except it's an 11" MacBook air! And I'm old enough to remember Clinton's presidency well.

I think some of us are lucky to have a flexibility gene activated. I have a 24" display I sometimes plug it into, but I've been working off this setup for a few months and it's fine.

Re: Linux touchpad: preliminary project funding, survey results

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing one my wish list of things that will probably never happen is an extensible EMACs, Jupyter hybrid with a full on highly extensible dependently typed programming language. By keeping the specification of the components as abstract as possible, one could reinterpret the same code to give a completely different and customizable user experience. Probably with a lens based GUI toolkit for interactive widgets. I…

How would Emacs with a typed programming language work with function redefinition? One of the benefits of the environment is I can change code very easily and see the changes quickly. But with types I'm not sure how you'd change the signature of a function and get it to recompile if it's already used elsewhere.

That's one thing I have been thinking about. I think Haskell and other statically typed functional programming languages would benefit from a more interactive REPL like experience for "non-pure" programming where you are sort of changing the wheels on a moving car.

This has a very reactive flavor, so I think you could have a sort of functional reactive approach where your hot-swappable definitions are represented as behaviours over time.

How to make that get out of your way until you actually want to swap things out, I have no clue. I think it will involve some sort of effect system, but I'm not sure if that will solve the problem.

Re: Linux touchpad: preliminary project funding, survey results

#116

This is still the most frustrating thing about Linux for me. I have two Thinkpads, a T460 running Windows from my employer, and a T560 running Ubuntu as my personal. Their touchpad hardware is, of course, identical. The experiences couldn't be more different. When I first got the machine, I spent weeks fighting with the driver, trying to figure out how a single number can represent four lines on two dimensions to def…

Am I the only one who finds the Synaptics trackpads on many laptops are simply a nightmare in itself regardless of the operating system due to the physical design? Not all Synaptics trackpads are created equal, on some machines, the surface friction just doesn't feel correct, making the pointer acceleration difficult to control. I know I was probably using it wrong and I should've spent an hour tweaking the parameter…

The trackpad on Macs is one of the major reasons I stick with Mac laptops.

Re: Linux touchpad: preliminary project funding, survey results

#117
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing one my wish list of things that will probably never happen is an extensible EMACs, Jupyter hybrid with a full on highly extensible dependently typed programming language. By keeping the specification of the components as abstract as possible, one could reinterpret the same code to give a completely different and customizable user experience. Probably with a lens based GUI toolkit for interactive widgets. I…

OK, I'll bite that sandwich. Can you expand some of these points? I fail to understand (I need an ELI5, first principles) I think I get the premise, EMACs/Jupyter hybrid with ext. prog. lang. (+1 for typed). > By keeping the specification of the components as abstract as possible, one could reinterpret the same code to give a completely different and customizable user experience. Custom UX is my pet peeve, has been f…

So there are sort of several ideas floating in my head. Keep in mind, these are very loose and I am talking way out of my league here.

I said lenses, but the more general term is optics (still vague and unsearchable, I know). A certain representation of optics was popularized in Haskell by Edward Kmett partly as a way to solve the record access problem, but they are way more useful then that.

Lenses, in a context of programming, can sort of be seen as a vast purely functional generalization of l-values.

When you are manipulating affordances in a user interface, you can view it as manipulating part of larger state. That is something that fits very well into the framework of optics. A simple example would be a color picker using different color models. HSV and RGB are both views of the same object. A slider for each of hue, saturation, value, red, blue and green can be seen as a lens from color to a magnitude. By adjusting the slider, you change the state.

Some parts of a user interface are dynamical systems, i.e. evolve over time based on state and locally available actions. One can imagine a platformer game with changing player position, or a media player with a slider. FRP delves into this, but I'm not too familiar with the literature. I am vaguely aware that lenses can be connected to dynamical systems, but I don't understand it at all.

As far as reinterpreting code. In Haskell and typed functional programming in general, there is this tower of different abstractions you can use to describe different levels of reified computation (Functors, Applicatives, Arrows, Monads). You also get effects systems, which make it more tractable for the layman that doesn't want to read ω+1 monad tutorials.

In these abstractions, one can make "free" constructions, which sort of have the flavor of making the thing as syntactic as possible while still following the laws that must be upheld by the abstraction. This makes it possible to write code separately from the way it is interpreted.

I only have a vague feeling that these concepts will fit well together. Perhaps my head is too far in the clouds.

EDIT: As far as model view separation, that it is. But the idea is to stratify it even further. You have your larger state of the whole application in which you can increasingly select parts of the whole and manipulate them. The lens part not only captures the translation from the model to the view, but also from actions on the view to the model.

Re: Linux touchpad: preliminary project funding, survey results

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I the only one who finds the Synaptics trackpads on many laptops are simply a nightmare in itself regardless of the operating system due to the physical design? Not all Synaptics trackpads are created equal, on some machines, the surface friction just doesn't feel correct, making the pointer acceleration difficult to control. I know I was probably using it wrong and I should've spent an hour tweaking the parameter…

The trackpad on Macs is one of the major reasons I stick with Mac laptops.

Except it's way too big now, resulting in spurious cursor-jumps, erroneous right-clicks... it's dumb.

Even dumber is that Apple didn't do the obvious thing to make the giant trackpad pay off: Make the Pencil work on it! DUHHHH

Re: Linux touchpad: preliminary project funding, survey results

#119
post #74
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now imagine coming from years of Mac use to Linux or Windows, and discovering to your horror that because the modifier key on those platforms isn't cmd but ctrl you cannot do many of the default shortcuts you're used to in the terminal.

Yep, Apple really nailed it with that choice. Not only can you use GUI key combos in the terminal, but also you can use terminal line editing key combos in the GUI. That's something that seems like it ought to be possible in Linux, but afaik it is not.

I can't speak to Windows but at least on Linux that's entirely determined by your desktop environment and terminal emulator. For example, KDE offers near complete configurability of keyboard shortcuts including the ability to specify different sets of active shortcuts based on an application being open or in focus. Taking it even farther, you can use xmodmap (deprecated but simpler) or xkb (full functionality but more complicated) to completely redefine how physical keypresses are translated into software events.

You can do virtually anything on Linux if you're willing to invest the time.

Re: Linux touchpad: preliminary project funding, survey results

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I the only one who finds the Synaptics trackpads on many laptops are simply a nightmare in itself regardless of the operating system due to the physical design? Not all Synaptics trackpads are created equal, on some machines, the surface friction just doesn't feel correct, making the pointer acceleration difficult to control. I know I was probably using it wrong and I should've spent an hour tweaking the parameter…

The trackpad on Macs is one of the major reasons I stick with Mac laptops.

Same, despite the overheating issue with my model, and the copious amount of OS issues with the more recent releases, I’ve yet to find a laptop that comes close to Apple’s track pad.

To a point where sometimes I prefer the track pad over a mouse.

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