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The UK’s public health response to Covid-19

bmj.com

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Re: The UK’s public health response to Covid-19

#31

Post by arethuza »

CodeGlitch wrote: post #18
GEBBL wrote: post #8

And at the end of all this, you guys have Brexit. The UK is teetering on the cliff edge.

People are still bitter about this aren't they? I voted remain but it's time to move on. The idea of a "cliff-edge" is yet to materialise.

I had kind of forgotten about the consequences of Brexit - but a recent interview on Radio 4 with someone from the US Department of Agriculture reminded me of the kind of problems ahead - he seemed to regard the (relatively) high standards of animal welfare in UK farms to be the result of unnecessary regulations, which sounded rather alarming to me.

Re: The UK’s public health response to Covid-19

#32

Post by SiempreViernes »

cstross wrote: post #24
CodeGlitch wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are still bitter about this aren't they? I voted remain but it's time to move on. The idea of a "cliff-edge" is yet to materialise.

The "cliff-edge" hasn't materialized because the UK is in a negotiated transition period during which nothing changes. That ends on December 31st, 2020. On January 1st, new arrangements are supposed to come into force -- except they haven't been agreed yet, apart from a customs barrier within the UK (between Northern Ireland and the mainland). Meanwhile -- before COVID19 -- Sterling devalued by about 20%, the governm…

To be fair, "cliff edge" is not a very accurate description of how it will play out in practice: the effects did not kick in as sharply and consistently as they do going over an edge, and there's not really any hard rock at the bottom to smash things apart violently.

Re: The UK’s public health response to Covid-19

#33

Post by rcxdude »

CodeGlitch wrote: post #18
GEBBL wrote: post #8

And at the end of all this, you guys have Brexit. The UK is teetering on the cliff edge.

People are still bitter about this aren't they? I voted remain but it's time to move on. The idea of a "cliff-edge" is yet to materialise.

Because the cliff-edge has been put off repeatedly by delaying actually changing anything. It's current date is the end of this year, and there's not much indication it's going to change.

Re: The UK’s public health response to Covid-19

#34

Post by dijksterhuis »

amriksohata wrote: post #16

I agree that the UK response has not been as good as some other countries. I feel though there is a lot of political propoganda going on. This MP complained about a lack of PPE at a care home she worked in, but the care home sacked her for lying as they said they had plenty. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-525680...

"effectively sacked" - quote from the MP.

They cut her hours from 8 shifts over the two months of the height of the UK peak to 0 afterwards.

Agreed, sounds like someone blowing smoke up somewhere dark.

Re: The UK’s public health response to Covid-19

#35

Post by CodeGlitch »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #27
CodeGlitch wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are still bitter about this aren't they? I voted remain but it's time to move on. The idea of a "cliff-edge" is yet to materialise.

In fact we're living in the real world where most countries can see that the UK is about to slit its own throat in pursuit of a tabloid fantasy - which has been promoted by naive internal interests who are being taken advantage of by hostile foreign actors waiting to pick over the bones of whatever is left after the dust settles. Brexit makes as much practical sense as 5G COVID conspiracy theories. And they appear to…

It was a public vote. Democracy in action. The remain-side failed to convince the public why we should stay in the EU. There was enough coverage across all forms of media to convey the messages on both sides. There was plenty of lying, but that's how things roll in a democracy.

I'm happy that we got a chance to vote, and I'm happy that the result of the vote is being actioned on. I would have prefered to remain, but I'm happy we live in a country that gives us the chance to challange these things.

Re: The UK’s public health response to Covid-19

#36

Post by tompccs »

It's frustrating that all the valid criticism of SAGE and the scientific leadership of the UK (frankly they should all resign) is blunted by blatant propagandising over austerity and wider political beef. I cannot see the link between austerity and the disastrous herd immunity policy yet all of these articles in respected medical journals bring it up. These are supposed to be academic journals, not newspapers. It totally undermines their point by making them look politically motivated.

Re: The UK’s public health response to Covid-19

#37

Post by detaro »

amriksohata wrote: post #16

I agree that the UK response has not been as good as some other countries. I feel though there is a lot of political propoganda going on. This MP complained about a lack of PPE at a care home she worked in, but the care home sacked her for lying as they said they had plenty. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-525680...

I've heard from quite a few people organizing DIY faceshield/mask production in the UK that they got brushed off by higher-levels as "not needed, we have proper stuff, thanks", but the actual employees needing PPE were begging them for it. Unclear how widespread that is, but still worrysome.

Re: The UK’s public health response to Covid-19

#38

Post by butler14 »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #29
butler14 wrote: post #25

It's a reasonable opinion piece and I agree with a lot of it -- particularly not having Cummings in SAGE meetings and the embarrassing state of PPE, but; "he floated an approach to “build up some degree of herd immunity” founded on an erroneous view that the vast majority of cases would be mild, like influenza" as far as anyone knows, they are. the (limited) data we have is making a strong case for that. and in any c…

You've just written off 50,000 excess [1] deaths in the UK and 90,000 deaths in the US as "limited data." And also repeated the lie about "herd immunity" somehow being a thing that magically happens because of exposure, and not because of vaccines. (It doesn't. Ask any surviving polio victims how "herd immunity" worked out for them.) [1] Excess meaning those people would not have died for some time yet - decades for…

Raw death counts is only part of the picture.

My reference to 'limited data' relates to the other side of the coin -- the long tail of people who have had it and who haven't died.

We have solid projections of what number that might be based on random sampling and extrapolation. But we need a decent antibody test (and frankly, time) before drawing any conclusions.

And all the evidence I've personally seen suggests that SARS-CoV-2 trains your immune system -- and that consensus is that it will. And if you accept that, you accept that some degree of herd immunity is an inevitability.

Re: The UK’s public health response to Covid-19

#39

Post by yread »

CodeGlitch wrote: post #3
Traster wrote: post #2

>If the government failed in its duty to protect the public, it also failed to protect staff in the NHS and social care by not delivering sufficient amounts of personal protective equipment (PPE) of the right specification, again deviating from WHO advice The government is currently telling anyone who will listen that hospitals have all the PPE they need. However, local nurses and doctors are co-ordinating with volun…

The lack of PPE is a world-wide problem. The UK imported tonnes of the stuff for Turkey, but it was deemed to be not fit for purpose. Other countries have been asking for water-proof coats, that can be used as washable over-garments. I don't think any government is going to come out of this scoring 100%.

Letting Cheltenham festival (13-16 March) and other sport events go ahead with 10s thousands of people visiting should criminally punished

Re: The UK’s public health response to Covid-19

#40

Post by open-source-ux »

Angostura wrote: post #9
TLightful wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK response has been terrible in all respects. Please don't sugar coat it.

Nope, in many repects it's been pretty good. The respects that it has been very poor at was: * Being complacent about the country's testing capacity * stopping testing outside of hospitals once the containment phase was deemed over * PPE logistics. (tough global problem) * Support for care-homes. * Westminster's lack of care when it comes to coordinating the loosening of lock-down with the devolved countries It was a…

"Nope, in many repects it's been pretty good"

No, the Conservative government has shown a level of ineptitude that is off the scale. You list the areas where the government has failed - essentially everything that would have made a difference to the number of deaths.

In March, the medical director of National Health Service England, Stephen Powis, said that if we were able to keep deaths below 20,000 then "we will have done very well in this epidemic." UK deaths have now reached 50,000+ and will likely rise further.

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