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Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

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Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#711

Post by koheripbal »

sio8ohPi wrote: post #537
koheripbal wrote: post #112

I think a more fundamental problem is a single private company having a near-monopoly on various public communication channels, and having financial interests in various global dictatorships. The Founding Fathers could not have predicted this. Google's "We're a private company" get-out-jail-free card cannot continue to apply.

The founding fathers gave the USPS a monopoly on the major communication channel of the time. Maybe it's time to update those laws to give them a monopoly over online communication, too? I see no way this could go wrong.

USPS wasn't opening and reading everyone's messages, and then refusing to deliver certain content.

That's why envelopes were sealed.

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#712

Post by dang »

insickness wrote: post #325
missosoup wrote: post #41

There was a previous unrelated discussion about this just a few hours ago which was climbing to the top of the front page when I saw it. And then just vanished: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23221264 It's not flagged, it just went from #13 on the front page to invisible. In a single refresh. How does that work? Looking at the votes and age, it should be in the top 5 of both Ask and the front page. What's the m…

Earlier today, a post linking to this article vanished: https://wmbriggs.com/post/30833/ . It was generating upvotes and discussion.

That one was flag-killed by users (I've turned that off now). Moderators didn't see it.

The combination of taking an extreme contrarian position and presenting it in a grandiose and inflammatory way is pretty reliably fatal. I'm of two minds about that. On the one hand, I don't like to see minority views get killed for being contrarian. On the other hand, if the initial conditions of a thread are that inflammatory, we're guaranteed to get a flamewar, which is bad for this site.

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#713

Post by jakebasile »

exo-pla-net wrote: post #687
jakebasile wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who decides what is intelligent, well-reasoned critique? Those in power have an incentive to categorize anything that threatens them as "hate speech" or "obscene" or "threatening to the social order".

There are two parties that decide what constitutes an intelligent, well-reasoned critique. The first party is the owner(s) of a platform. For any owner, there is incentive to preserve power, but there is also incentive to not act as an oppressive villain. The owner sometimes has ideals beyond power, such as cultivating free communication to build ideas for a better world. But even the most callous, iron-fisted dictat…

I disagree, since I think all speech* is equally protected speech, including a crude slur. The reason for that is because it is far too easy for the powers that be to use claims of "only cleaning out the trash" to censor legitimate thoughts and expressions. Throughout history humans have proven incapable of making the right call on where to draw that line, so the only option is to draw it at all.

To refute your points: the owner of the platform has all the power in this relationship, since there are essentially zero repercussions for them over-censoring discussions. Most of the users of a platform won't know, won't care, or will accept the "just censoring the evil speech" argument. The audience itself is also not infallible, since there is a such thing as the tyranny of the majority.

*: of course, there is the point where speech itself requires harming another to create, such as child pornography or snuff films. But that is not what is at issue here or anywhere in modern discourse.

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#714

Post by whack »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #698
koheripbal wrote: post #112

I think a more fundamental problem is a single private company having a near-monopoly on various public communication channels, and having financial interests in various global dictatorships. The Founding Fathers could not have predicted this. Google's "We're a private company" get-out-jail-free card cannot continue to apply.

That would be why the US Justice department is looking at an antitrust suit, Anti-trust is the remedy that came about in 1890 when the Standard Oil trust seemed unstoppable. That said, I see this sort of thing a bit differently. If Google is all powerful and a monopoly and never in danger of being killed, why comply with an authoritarian foreign nation to remove comments that are amplifying an anti-government sentime…

Google certainly doesn't need China, but it wants it. It's a heckuva lot easier to do business and make money in a country, when you're chummy with the people in charge. Even if it goes against your ideals, free speech, or public interest.

Even if Google dies, its replacement will still be equally tempted to censor dissenting voices, in order to please the people in charge.

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#715

Post by koheripbal »

klyrs wrote: post #613
koheripbal wrote: post #112

I think a more fundamental problem is a single private company having a near-monopoly on various public communication channels, and having financial interests in various global dictatorships. The Founding Fathers could not have predicted this. Google's "We're a private company" get-out-jail-free card cannot continue to apply.

This is a problem with monopolies, not censorship. When private companies are forced to publish content, you have fundamentally lost the notion of a free press.

I don't entirely agree that companies operating public discussion forums is equivalent to "forced speech", but I do agree that the problem can be fixed by eliminating the monopoly/oligopoly.

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#716

Post by drak0n1c »

xenocyon wrote: post #651
humaid wrote: post #59

Similar happens with the name "Eric Ciaramella", which YouTube instantly deletes. This is a name of a CIA whistle blower. It would be interesting to know what other words are in the YouTube censor list.

That's a strange equivalence, and a malevolent comment. Outing whistle-blowers (or supposed whistle-blowers) is bad for democracy. The government is supposed to be transparent to the people. This does not mean that the people should be transparent to the government, or that dissidents should be outed.

The "whistle-blower" was a federal employee making allegations of hearsay and intent identifying other federal employees (not just the President). What is the line that decides that one is immune to scrutiny while others receive the full brunt? Is it partisan lines, or perhaps seniority cut-offs? Carter Page received no such protection from being targeted and publicly unmasked, despite being a long-time investigation informant.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/while-were-talking-a...

Such ambiguity fosters an environment of pre-emptive accusations, rife with alternating investigations and immunity.

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#717

Post by philistine »

subsubzero wrote: post #560
giancarlostoro wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly about a year ago I decided to switch to an iPhone once the "contract" is up. I have used iOS and I didnt find it anymore special, but it isn't really that much different to me to be bothered by using either one. I will also take that moment to ungooglify my life including email and such.

I did the same a few years back, use duck duck go for search, iphone for phone, apple maps for directions, firefox|safari|brave for browser, it is really easy to get google out of your life, only thing I am still looking to replace is mail, if anyone has found something that is free(or relatively cheap) and is reliable I'd love to know.

purelymail.com is hella cheap!

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#718

Post by chongli »

tekstar wrote: post #581
subsubzero wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did the same a few years back, use duck duck go for search, iphone for phone, apple maps for directions, firefox|safari|brave for browser, it is really easy to get google out of your life, only thing I am still looking to replace is mail, if anyone has found something that is free(or relatively cheap) and is reliable I'd love to know.

What is your alternative to YouTube?

Twitch.tv! It's not just for live streams either. You can watch lots of previously recorded streams as well. It's also not just for video games (though it is predominantly video games).

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#719

Post by jshevek »

Shivetya wrote: post #426
gabaix wrote: post #63

Youtube is in a tough spot. They will be blamed: - if they don't take down speech some consider hateful - if they take down speech some do not consider hateful 共匪 is seen as an insult by a group, but others do not. If Youtube bans nothing, then hate speech thrives and they get bad PR. If Youtube bans anything anyone flags as hate speech, then they become de facto as censorship agents for foreign powers. Anything crit…

well do we have a list of words or symbols they automatically delete?

I'm not sure if this list of banned words is treated the same way as "共匪" in all cases, but "共匪" is on this list:

https://en.greatfire.org/blog/2012/jun/all-blocked-keywords-...

Re: Google deletes “communist bandits” from comments on Youtube

#720

Post by Swenrekcah »

MiSeRyDeee wrote: post #619
Swenrekcah wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, but there is a pretty clear difference between censorship to protect an individual and censorship of critisising a government.

Can't you even see removing the CIA's whistle blower's name is in interest of US gov? How can that be interpreted as protecting an individual?

It certainly does not seem to be in the interest of the current US government.

To answer your question:

Protecting a whistleblower's identity is in the interest of US society as a whole. It protects the individual somewhat from persecution which in turn encourages people to blow the whistle on illegal activities, thus benefiting society.

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