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Ask HN: Dear open source devs how do you sustain yourself

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Re: Ask HN: Dear open source devs how do you sustain yourself

#181
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder : do you have the same engineer turn over than "regular" companies, that is developers leaving after two or three years max? We don't. Clearly not. People leaving is very rare. But also, our recruitment is very different from normal companies. :)

Nice :) I did expect that much, if only because working on free softwares feels way less pointless than working on yet an other e-commerce company or b2b app fighting to get users through advertisement. Would you mind telling us more about your recruitment process? I'm not in a hiring position myself, but I guess it would be of value for a lot of people here, giving how turn over is a serious blow for everyone.

> Would you mind telling us more about your recruitment process?

So, in general, I ask 2 main questions:

- talk to me about you, what you like and which project you worked on that you liked.

- a generic question, that can be a bit misleading, on purpose. Like "What is the difference between TCP and UDP, and is HTTP over TCP or UDP?" for webdevs or "What is the =0 in C++ classes headers? Since NULL and 0 are the same, can I use "=0" here?" for C++ devs, or "How would you improve C if you could?"

The first type of questions see if the person truly likes software development, and is not here just because "that's what cool kids do" and that removes a lot of bro-grammer.

The second is more to see the generic culture, and if the person was curious enough to look a bit at the core of the technology they are working on. Because there isn't a yes/no answer, you must discuss.

And also, I need to meet in person. No 1hr phone-call, no white-board, no multiple meetings, no complex CS question that anyone can prepare.

I have one big issue with recruitment process: when I meet people, after those 2 questions, I can know very quickly that I don't want to hire them. If we are in the first 5 minutes of the interview, how can I tell them "no" without being too rude?

Finally, the culture, and the political culture of the community must fit. And unfortunately, sometimes that shows on the resume/introduction mail. But to be honest, it's rarely been an issue, except for one intern once.

Re: Ask HN: Dear open source devs how do you sustain yourself

#182
> But the question is how do you sustain yourself while working fulltime on building/maintaining open source software

One thing I would suggest, is thinking about what's acceptable to you ?

At the risk of summarizing what's been said already :

1) Get donations

2) Build some form of open source business (consulting, or open-core)

3) Find a business that will pay you to work some part of your time on open source

4) Find another work and do open source on the side

I think that it's very easy to fall into the 1) trap. In many ways, it probably aligns the most with the values of open source which you seem to care about, but except for a handful of people, this is clearly unsustainable and a road to sadness. And all the various efforts that I've seen over the last 20 years to "improve" this situation have failed.

Solution 2) is pretty popular around here, for obvious reasons. Especially on the "open core" side, it tries to find an equilibrium point between open source and making money. While I'm sure there are many successful examples, there's also a pretty big tension between the two sides on terms of ideals, and they may not define what's success the same way. You may not enjoy a successful exit.

Which brings the last 2 solutions which are pretty similar. One thing I'd say is that in general, there's a lot of demand for software engineers. Many fields have needs for them (a lot of them outside the software industry) and, to keep this short, you probably have options to find something that you can accept (you may not want to work at Oracle !).

In my case, I've been taking care of a macOS screensaver[1] for a couple of years now. Since I didn't start the project, I've always felt bad about asking for donations, but a few users insisted, so I've added a small donate button. Despite the stars and downloads, the donations are far from even covering my expresso addiction ;)

But I never expected otherwise. And sure, I could make the donation thing more prominent, some may even say put a button in the preference panel of the screensaver. I'm not sure it would move the needle by that much, and it's probably not worth the extra guilt I'd feel about asking for those.

So in my case, I do freelance engineering jobs, surprisingly completely unrelated to the insanely niche field of macOS screensavers ! I also try to work on (unrelated) iOS apps for myself, although my expectations on that are mild, it's not an easy path.

But I do have control of my time, and I enjoy being able to keep adding new features to Aerial (there's weather in the latest betas !), although that effort tends to come in bursts depending on my free time. And although it's a burden, I've even taken to "enjoy" doing support, which I certainly wouldn't have expected !

[1]: https://github.com/JohnCoates/Aerial

Re: Ask HN: Dear open source devs how do you sustain yourself

#183
post #57

I've been working on VideoLAN (VLC, x264, other...) for most of my professional life. For a long time, I had other jobs, working at startups around video, and doing VLC at nights and weekends and holidays. And now, I built a couple of companies around Open Source multimedia, where we do consulting, integration, custom development around software, applications development, licensing, support and so on. Those companies…

I love VLC. In fact, we all love VLC! This is one media player software that has never, ever, let me down. Every other player has let me down in one way or the other, but not this. Building a software of such high quality is impressive beyond words. So many thanks to you for this..

Re: Ask HN: Dear open source devs how do you sustain yourself

#184
post #165

I tweeted about my first $1k/mo GitHub sponsor recently. https://twitter.com/excid3/status/1250428994303885313 A lot of the sponsors that do well are ones that offer things that the sponsor wants. Trading a couple hours a month consulting for $1k/mo in sponsorship helps make it worth doing to the donors. They want to support you, but they also probably could use your help. Effectively you're productizing consulting a…

If you only have 9 sponsors that probably means few (one) of them is paying for 99% which means you might not be able to rely on that income?

Re: Ask HN: Dear open source devs how do you sustain yourself

#185
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d like to see some nice analysis on this because my experience was completely the opposite. I don’t work on open source much (a few lines over 20 years), but the only patch I made was super welcoming and a dev bent over backwards to teach me how to diff and submit patches. I just assumed this was common.

This is also my (limited) experience, though one does find... less than welcoming maintainers. :) It depends a lot in how you approach the project though. Being humble and careful not to waste maintainers' time more than necessary goes a long way. Remember, it's their free time they are donating to you, so make sure that you went extra mile to really prove that the bug is in the project and not in your code.

> Remember, it's their free time they are donating to you, so make sure that you went extra mile to really prove that the bug is in the project and not in your code.

This is kind of what I'm trying to address, which is the belief that the creator of the project is owed something and thus also free to be a jerk. Most users are not going to donate money, but some of us do so on occasion. I usually donate when a project is in dire straits just because I don't have a lot of cash floating around for myself, though over the decades this has added up to thousands of dollars donated.

However, when I see a project has been rude to users, or even actual experience see a project desperate for funds that was rude to me, I don't donate a thing no matter if I use it a lot. I don't believe in treating users like doormats and won't support it.

Re: Ask HN: Dear open source devs how do you sustain yourself

#186
post #171

I asked Richard Stallman this question: His answer was: Live cheaply. Eric S. Raymond answer was: Be independently wealthy. I have tried to reach billionaire philanthropists (Bill Gates, Steve Wozniak, Dean Kamen, Warren Buffet, and others) with the idea that there are very talented people around who have brilliant ideas (say for instance another Newton or Mozart) but are not financially independent to afford to work…

Sad and similar response from both of them, ie "you shouldnt need money" This is a major failure of free and open source, not having a business plan at all while those who do have a business plan, Google, AWS, Microsoft are reeking in the billions in profit from the free labor provided by foss-developers. Why cant developers of the software (say coreutils) make profits on it? Why cant developers put constraints on th…

But this is something open source developers choose, no? They can revise the licenses to ask for licensing fee for companies larger than 1000 employees and let rest of the people use it for free.

If I ever develop an open source software, I’ll definitely ask for tiered licensing cost, something like redisdesktop.com.

Re: Ask HN: Dear open source devs how do you sustain yourself

#187
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because, as soon as I wanted to raise money from VC to grow the business, it was very difficult to get anything. And we have a lot of research and projects, that we never get released, and other people use the tech, rewrap it and get the $$ :)

I commend you for your personal ambition, but sometimes getting a different perspective can be a good thing. Your complaint basically is that you are having a hard time getting a VC investment for your (otherwise perfectly fine) running business that feeds a lot of mouths and - while not making a fortune - makes money. On a certain level that's akin to a tenured professor with a perfectly fine University career compl…

> On a certain level that's akin to a tenured professor

You clearly haven’t run a small business. It’s more like being a dairy farmer where if you ever fail to make hay, every thing dies. There are good times and bad, but you are never free from the sword of Damocles.

Re: Ask HN: Dear open source devs how do you sustain yourself

#188
Why do you want to get into open source? Is it because you support the philosophy of open source?

Is it because you don't like your present job and want to work at a better one, and it seems like open source work would be more pleasant?

People who can make a living doing open source are rare, you have better chances of winning the lottery than making a non poverty living writing open source code unless you can make yourself a super star.

The only solid way to do it is code, code code. Write software people will use, that not only works well but which has quality source code. Share it, support it, work with others to make the software even better.

Write something people need that is otherwise very expensive, like a CAD package for a specific need, or something that is a niche no one has addressed yet with really high quality software.

Note that the above relate to software you create.

If you just want to work maintaining open source software, you can get a job working with it somewhere that uses it extensively... not too hard these days, lots of places that make set top boxes or embedded devices use Linux, Android is still partly Linux.

If you're thinking of making a living by writing open source software but you haven't already written a well liked open source package.... I suggest you adjust your expectations.

Re: Ask HN: Dear open source devs how do you sustain yourself

#189
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

15 years ago I was on a date with a wonderful young lady. We had a picnic and I brought my (at the time) very modern projector to watch a movie, projected on a bedsheet in the woods. Windows Media Player refused to play the DVD. No internet access at all. I thought I had failed...until I remembered that I had installed VLC. Opened the VTS.VOB on the DVD directly and boom, the video started and played back without a s…

How did you power the projector? Did you drag a generator into the forest too?

He busted out the old hand crank projector of course.

Re: Ask HN: Dear open source devs how do you sustain yourself

#190
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is also my (limited) experience, though one does find... less than welcoming maintainers. :) It depends a lot in how you approach the project though. Being humble and careful not to waste maintainers' time more than necessary goes a long way. Remember, it's their free time they are donating to you, so make sure that you went extra mile to really prove that the bug is in the project and not in your code.

> Remember, it's their free time they are donating to you, so make sure that you went extra mile to really prove that the bug is in the project and not in your code. This is kind of what I'm trying to address, which is the belief that the creator of the project is owed something and thus also free to be a jerk. Most users are not going to donate money, but some of us do so on occasion. I usually donate when a project…

Open source means that you can pay anyone you want to work on it. You don't have to donate to the original maintainer. Although if you like the person and they are clearly stressed out and suffering and lashing out at people, it may be in your interest to help them deal with that first, rather than ignoring them and letting the project flounder. If you don't have the bandwidth to give money then that's fine, you can help in other ways. But I don't think it is wise to dismiss maintainer stress and burnout, or view it as a personal attack against you. Unless of course, you are burnt out yourself and need some help too, in which case, there's a lot you could do, but you probably have heard all the generic advice already. Personally I always try to remember that the goal is to see the project succeed, NOT to try to punish someone for perceived bad behavior.
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