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Daily standups should be async

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Re: Daily standups should be async

#151

Post by xref »

Benjammer wrote: post #52
protonimitate wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Async stand ups are an agile smell. If you can successfully get unblocked async over slack/email/whatever, there isn't a need a for standups. That just means you have a functioning line of communication for your team. Stand ups should solve the problem of "I need to get unblocked and I can't get my teams attention effectively". If async "standups" solve that, great. But it's not a one size fits all solution,…

Literally had a manager say "oh, they're supposed to be for unblocking? I just thought it was an easy way for me to report up the chain on what my team is working on, that's why I told people to just write it on Slack to make it easier for them." ugh

Stand-ups becoming a status report to justify your employment is a common end state of “going agile”. Meeting gets longer, people add more trivial minutiae, nobody wants to look the laggard

Re: Daily standups should be async

#152

Post by gowld »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #102
karatestomp wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you tell engineers that standups can go async or be cancelled if they're ineffective, they will find creative ways to make the standups ineffective. What the hell? Have you actually seen this happen? I can't imagine someone jettisoning something that makes their work-life easier and is an extremely low time commitment, just because you tell them they can. I can imagine them changing it to something else if that'…

> What the hell? Have you actually seen this happen? Yes, this is from personal experience. > I can't imagine someone jettisoning something that makes their work-life easier and is an extremely low time commitment, just because you tell them they can. Look at it from a different angle: If you tell people you're thinking about replacing standups with something more efficient, you've tipped your hand that the current s…

That's hugely backwards, sacrificing 10 people's time to help 1 is what's inefficient.

Re: Daily standups should be async

#153

Post by im3w1l-alt »

protonimitate wrote: post #24
hyperpape wrote: post #6

I think if your standup can be async, then it's ineffective, and you should get rid of it. And to be clear, that's fine! Not every team needs standups. The only value in a standup is when team members actually share ideas about what they're working on. The detailed conversation happens outside the standup, but the purpose of the standup is just to get that moment of "I know about that, let's talk". In that case, havi…

Agreed. Async stand ups are an agile smell. If you can successfully get unblocked async over slack/email/whatever, there isn't a need a for standups. That just means you have a functioning line of communication for your team. Stand ups should solve the problem of "I need to get unblocked and I can't get my teams attention effectively". If async "standups" solve that, great. But it's not a one size fits all solution,…

Standups always bored the shit out of me because a huge fraction of time is spent listening to irrelevant stuff. I wonder if speed dating might be more stimulating.

Re: Daily standups should be async

#154

Post by mindfulgeek »

jmondi wrote: post #33
ohduran wrote: post #5

The whole purpose of daily standups is to be short, to the point, and force developers to discuss blockers. That can't be async, because I need the other members of the team to answer. The issue the author is addressing is that for some, this is wasted time. But a) that's why these meetings are short, thus the standing up part, and b) Usually it isn't but an opportunity for more seniors to chime in with suggestions.…

Am I the only one who raises a flag immediately when there is a blocker? Why would I wait until the next day?

I think about it like this — if I ask a question, someone needs to be interrupted to make that happen. Even if they were on slack anyway, or between tasks, if it’s not something they are otherwise working on, it may take them off their task. If my thing is critical or blocking others, I raise a flag. If it can wait, I wait too. Disruptions are probably one of the most costly time investments of our trade.

Re: Daily standups should be async

#155

Post by ljm »

hyperpape wrote: post #6

I think if your standup can be async, then it's ineffective, and you should get rid of it. And to be clear, that's fine! Not every team needs standups. The only value in a standup is when team members actually share ideas about what they're working on. The detailed conversation happens outside the standup, but the purpose of the standup is just to get that moment of "I know about that, let's talk". In that case, havi…

I agree with some of what you say, but not all of it.

Back when I first switched to a scrum master role, way back in 2013, I was pretty full on with prescribing the purpose of certain ceremonies. The standup was for X, and the sprint planning was for Y, etc. We had built a successful business model around that back then so it wasn't necessarily being dogmatic about agile and scrum, but knowing our recipe for success and sticking to it, so we ran a tight ship that also allowed us to put our feet up and work more sustainably.

I find myself in a similar leadership role now and, perhaps moreso due to us all working from home since the end of February, I've taken a completely different tack. I really appreciate what agile and scrum embody but after several years of doing it and getting comfortable with my own role in that dynamic, I've pretty much tossed the 'rules' out of the window and gone straight back to basics with the original manifesto.

My team now does 'asynchronous standups' but we don't call them standups. If my team wants to jump on a call to chat, I'll be there, but otherwise, a quick check in when they come online and start their workday is more than enough. That could be at 7.30am or 12pm for all I care. It still performs the function of a standup, and it fits the purpose we've given it.

I'm not really interested in selling proper scrum to my team the way I used to, now I'm far more keen to let them self-organise and let their work, their happiness, and their behaviour speak for itself. They always have the option to introduce more process if they want to.

Re: Daily standups should be async

#156

Post by [deleted] »

_t0du wrote: post #7

In my experience, async standups mean everyone posts their status and does not read any other status. Counterpoint: In my experience, at synchronous standups, people totally ignore everyone until its their time to speak, and then share an update, and then go back to not listening.

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