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Justice Department, states likely to bring antitrust lawsuits against Google

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Re: Justice Department, states likely to bring antitrust lawsuits against Google

#321

Post by Mirioron »

dantheman wrote: post #289
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could have made the same argument about Standard Oil - until the competition were crushed and prices went up. Which is why lower consumer prices aren't a valid defence against anti=trust. Nor is the argument that markets "naturally" lead to monopolies or (at best) oligopolies and cartels - even though empirically they do. So much so that setting out to create a monopoly is a bullet point on many unicorn-wannabe b…

During standard oils run, the price of kerosene, dropped from 35 cents to 8 cents, and their percentage of the oil market actually decreased significantly long before it was broken up. https://fee.org/articles/the-myth-that-standard-oil-was-a-pr...

I read about that a while ago. This raised the question in the back of my mind: did the investors (Rockefeller) actually want Standard Oil to be broken up? As I understand it, it ended up being incredibly profitable for them.

Re: Justice Department, states likely to bring antitrust lawsuits against Google

#323

Post by pdonis »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #247
c1b wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny how making books cheap is considered a failing.

You could have made the same argument about Standard Oil - until the competition were crushed and prices went up. Which is why lower consumer prices aren't a valid defence against anti=trust. Nor is the argument that markets "naturally" lead to monopolies or (at best) oligopolies and cartels - even though empirically they do. So much so that setting out to create a monopoly is a bullet point on many unicorn-wannabe b…

> You could have made the same argument about Standard Oil - until the competition were crushed and prices went up.

Prices didn't go up until the government forced Standard Oil to break up. It had nothing to do with the competition being "crushed"; it had to do with the government taking the attitude you mention, that lower consumer prices didn't matter. Which seems daft since lower consumer prices mean consumers, i.e., the people, are better off.

Re: Justice Department, states likely to bring antitrust lawsuits against Google

#324

Post by dvduval »

inapis wrote: post #189
davidajackson wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I think of harmful monopolies, I think that the worst ones are where a company owns a patent to a drug and refuses to sell it for less than 100x cost. But people every day can choose to type in any website into their search bar... and they choose to type Google. I don't see any reason why Google should be punished for that--unless they've done something bad elsewhere. It seems like a lawsuit will objectively mak…

You really can’t compete against free. A large number of people use Google properties because they are free. Existence of a free product will pretty much decimate a large number of business models. Give it enough time and these companies will create gravity wells that start distorting society. Google’s network effects are so strong that as a consumer or a producer you cannot run away from them. Want to use your own e…

Yes, indeed. And if Google is monetizing me, I don't equate that to being free. I can't tell you what I'm giving up, because Google does not share with me how much money they are making because of me.

Re: Justice Department, states likely to bring antitrust lawsuits against Google

#325

Post by milkytron »

marmada wrote: post #302

A take: monopoly in tech is good. Because Google/Amazon/FB have so much money they can do things that push tech forward as a whole. Think about the revolutionary improvements Google has made towards data centers, AWS, and all the research/open source contributions these companies have done. Unlike other monopolies (telecom, defense contracting) etc. where the monopoly is used to stagnate innovation (see Comcast being…

> Smaller companies can't embark on Google-sized projects.

What do you mean by "Google-sized projects"? Google is made up of many differently sized services. And a lot of the services that Google provides have smaller companies that provide competing services. One of Google's advantages is that it can subsidize the cost of smaller services with it's cash cow.

Re: Justice Department, states likely to bring antitrust lawsuits against Google

#326

Post by dvduval »

mrkramer wrote: post #77
xoxoy wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it matter how a monopoly came to be a monopoly?

Yea it matters. If monopoly was achieved through market competition then fine, if it was achieved through destroying other companies then it is illegal and unfair. But once dominant market position is achieved company still needs to behave properly and not stifle competition.

Just following your argument down that road... What if one day there is only one company in the whole world? if they just slowly envelops all the other companies, and perhaps met your definition of this being legal and fair, would that be fine?

Re: Justice Department, states likely to bring antitrust lawsuits against Google

#327

Post by cageface »

I think some antitrust enforcement in tech is overdue. But it needs to be applied broadly and fairly across the entire industry. Singling out single companies is just picking winners and losers.

Making big acquisitions much more difficult and reviewing the big acquistitions of the last decade would be the right place to start in my opinion.

Re: Justice Department, states likely to bring antitrust lawsuits against Google

#328

Post by marmada »

alentist wrote: post #318
marmada wrote: post #302

A take: monopoly in tech is good. Because Google/Amazon/FB have so much money they can do things that push tech forward as a whole. Think about the revolutionary improvements Google has made towards data centers, AWS, and all the research/open source contributions these companies have done. Unlike other monopolies (telecom, defense contracting) etc. where the monopoly is used to stagnate innovation (see Comcast being…

Why aren’t you disclosing that you’re working for Google?

Alright it's disclosed. I'm not opposed to disclosing (I'm assuming you know b/c it's been mentioned previously in my profile). But also, I had this viewpoint well before I decided to work at Google this summer for an internship.

Re: Justice Department, states likely to bring antitrust lawsuits against Google

#329

Post by VWWHFSfQ »

cageface wrote: post #327

I think some antitrust enforcement in tech is overdue. But it needs to be applied broadly and fairly across the entire industry. Singling out single companies is just picking winners and losers. Making big acquisitions much more difficult and reviewing the big acquistitions of the last decade would be the right place to start in my opinion.

Thankfully USA has provisions codified in law for this kind of thing. It was famously enforced against Microsoft. Now enforce it against Google. And then do it against Facebook.

Re: Justice Department, states likely to bring antitrust lawsuits against Google

#330

Post by kortilla »

pb7 wrote: post #40
glenstein wrote: post #16

I don't have a problem with this. But I wonder why there isn't similar willpower to pursue, say, telecoms, banks, Monsanto, Luxxotica, Disney, and the like. Why is it just big tech?

What, you mean go after their friends? Are you crazy? It’s complete nonsense. Telecoms have been fucking people over for decades and yet we still see mergers resulting in 3 providers going to 2 despite it being downright impossible to start a new one (see: Google Fiber), that is if you’re even lucky enough to have more than one in your region.

Google fiber was fine. Google just stopped caring once they realized how little ROI is in the field. Turns out being a last mile ISP is a pretty low margin business.
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