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Justice Department, states likely to bring antitrust lawsuits against Google

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Re: Justice Department, states likely to bring antitrust lawsuits against Google

#111

Post by c1b »

shadowgovt wrote: post #91
pge wrote: post #20

This is interesting because it seems like the DOJ's definition of monopoly is changing, which I think is a good thing. Since the late 80s (roughly), antitrust litigation has only been brought on the basis of a monopoly's negative impact on consumer prices (i.e. does the existence of a monopoly cause the consumer to have to pay higher prices?). That ignores monopolies that impair the ability of smaller companies to en…

This has been a major gap between the American understanding of monopoly protection and the European one. In the European space, protection of smaller business' ability to compete is factored in. But the US space, in general, has not cared if smaller businesses can compete and tends to take a laissez-faire attitude towards business-on-business market pressures. It's the effect of the market on consumers that's paramo…

Funny how making books cheap is considered a failing.

Re: Justice Department, states likely to bring antitrust lawsuits against Google

#112

Post by tjs8rj »

akersten wrote: post #23

I will continue to believe that this is another tentacle of William Barr's political harassment of Google and tech in general until he leads the same crusade against other 'monopolies' of the same degree like Comcast, Apple, Boeing, Amazon, United Airlines, etc.

Part of it is surely just the PR of it. It's popular to hate on Google - and relatively non-partisan.

Re: Justice Department, states likely to bring antitrust lawsuits against Google

#113

Post by pjc50 »

nostrademons wrote: post #61
iateanapple wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are any of those companies (except Amazon) even in the same league in terms of negative impact as big tech?

Boeing's 737 Max debacle killed two plane-fuls of people . It's pretty hard to argue that either Amazon or Google has had negative effects on that magnitude.

Boeing are a strategic defense capability that happen to make civilian aircraft. The US is going to prop them up to keep Airbus from dominating.

Re: Justice Department, states likely to bring antitrust lawsuits against Google

#114

Post by barrkel »

dantheman wrote: post #56
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if it is, it could set a precedent that makes it easier for a future, less corrupt administration. I don't know if the good necessarily outweighs the bad, but maybe it does.

Yeah, because the government going after private organizations with vague mandates is a clear way to avoid corruption. /S This is a continuation of politics trying to skim money off of tech and funnel it to thier favored constituents - it's straight up corruption.

Democracy is about setting the rules for society, including how to reallocate some fraction of private resources according to a popular mandate.

This doesn't mean its corruption. You need more qualification to call it that.

(Not saying that the Trump admin isn't corrupt. I'm rather saying that your statement is too broad, and it fits almost all generally accepted democratic governance.)

Re: Justice Department, states likely to bring antitrust lawsuits against Google

#115

Post by atomi »

pb7 wrote: post #40
glenstein wrote: post #16

I don't have a problem with this. But I wonder why there isn't similar willpower to pursue, say, telecoms, banks, Monsanto, Luxxotica, Disney, and the like. Why is it just big tech?

What, you mean go after their friends? Are you crazy? It’s complete nonsense. Telecoms have been fucking people over for decades and yet we still see mergers resulting in 3 providers going to 2 despite it being downright impossible to start a new one (see: Google Fiber), that is if you’re even lucky enough to have more than one in your region.

It's clearly all politics.

The federal government decides the winners and losers.

Re: Justice Department, states likely to bring antitrust lawsuits against Google

#116

Post by a9entroy »

noad wrote: post #3

Amazon and Facebook should be next. Break them all up with extreme prejudice and put strict new anti-trust laws around acquisitions in place for the future. We're going to do this and open technology back up to innovation and progress, or just watch the tech giants continue to grow in power and abusiveness year after year while new startups continue to decline.

What will breaking up Google accomplish? I think the individual orgs inside Google already act as separate businesses. So they are already split internally.

Re: Justice Department, states likely to bring antitrust lawsuits against Google

#117

Post by jedimastert »

subsubzero wrote: post #66
akersten wrote: post #23

I will continue to believe that this is another tentacle of William Barr's political harassment of Google and tech in general until he leads the same crusade against other 'monopolies' of the same degree like Comcast, Apple, Boeing, Amazon, United Airlines, etc.

Not saying google isn't a monopoly, it classically is, same with facebook. But I wonder if Goog wasn't a majority "blue" company would he aggressively go after them. The problem is there are so many oligarchy's controlling industries. Chips, well its a two or three company game(intel, amd, ARM). Lets look at airlines, well its united, delta, american etc. Communications(cell phones), ATT, Verizon, Sprint/Tmobile. Ame…

> Not saying google isn't a monopoly, it classically is

Most people I've seen equate monopoly with "95% of people use", which really isn't a monopoly. As far as I'm aware, dominating a market is not the sole criteria of a monopoly (although I am aware it is a sign of successful one, correlation/causation).

For someone who doesn't follow this kind of thing, can anyone point to concrete examples of "no other company does this" monopoly or "actively stifling competition" anti-trust practices taken by google without just scoffing and saying its obvious?

Re: Justice Department, states likely to bring antitrust lawsuits against Google

#118

Post by AnimalMuppet »

nojito wrote: post #46
foxtr0t wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't settlement far more likely than losing all the way through appeals? And in what way is it straightforward? Does it not require a new interpretation of antitrust law? Google isn't using monopoly power to increase prices for consumers.

>Google isn't using monopoly power to increase prices for consumers. This is whole reason for the criminal trial. If they can prove Google stifled competition in the advertising business, it is going to be a cut and dry case.

Antitrust isn't criminal; it's civil.

Re: Justice Department, states likely to bring antitrust lawsuits against Google

#119

Post by davidajackson »

mrkramer wrote: post #54
pge wrote: post #20

This is interesting because it seems like the DOJ's definition of monopoly is changing, which I think is a good thing. Since the late 80s (roughly), antitrust litigation has only been brought on the basis of a monopoly's negative impact on consumer prices (i.e. does the existence of a monopoly cause the consumer to have to pay higher prices?). That ignores monopolies that impair the ability of smaller companies to en…

Google's dominant market position was achieved through market competition not through impairing the ability of smaller companies to enter markets. Even in Google Chrome you can pick DuckDuckGo and Ecosia as your default search engine. Most of Chrome users probably never heard of those two search engines. For example would YouTube be successful as it is today if it wasn't Google's resources and knowledge to skyrocket…

When I think of harmful monopolies, I think that the worst ones are where a company owns a patent to a drug and refuses to sell it for less than 100x cost. But people every day can choose to type in any website into their search bar... and they choose to type Google. I don't see any reason why Google should be punished for that--unless they've done something bad elsewhere. It seems like a lawsuit will objectively make customer experience worse.

Re: Justice Department, states likely to bring antitrust lawsuits against Google

#120

Post by vondur »

akersten wrote: post #23

I will continue to believe that this is another tentacle of William Barr's political harassment of Google and tech in general until he leads the same crusade against other 'monopolies' of the same degree like Comcast, Apple, Boeing, Amazon, United Airlines, etc.

I agree with Comcast, they need to be broken up, and Amazon could do with some scrutiny. But Apple, Boeing and United Airlines? The aren't monopolies by any definition.
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