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Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

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Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#301

Post by mattmar96 »

asdff wrote: post #294
Consultant32452 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing to keep in mind is that this is NOT what working remotely is really like. During normal times if I am missing socialization at work I can make up for it by going out more during the week. During normal times if I want I can spend a few hours working from the local cafe. But the cafes are closed. During normal times, kids are at school for most of the day so they don't disrupt you. But schools are closed. I'…

It doesn't matter if I have my laptop and a hotspot at the beach with tacos and a bucket of beers. It's an issue with a lack of effective communication on emails/slack/zoom compared with meeting with your colleagues face to face. Productivity has fallen off a cliff among everyone I've asked, and this is the reason.

Personally, I've been way _more_ productive during all of this. And before the pandemic, I was somewhat of an in-office advocate myself.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#302

Post by oiasdjfoiasd »

mcguire wrote: post #211
zaidf wrote: post #14

People won't continue making their current SF salary by working out of Farmville, Ohio. I think this point is missed by many I fully expect Twitter, for example, to come out with salary adjustment policies for people who want to work from home from an entirely different city and state

"Rent is way too high in San Francisco!" "So move somewhere else, maybe?" "But I won't make as much money!" Well, there you go, then.

"Yes, I live in SF" - Actually lives in Ohio.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#303

Post by bradlys »

nitrogen wrote: post #212
take_a_breath wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

==I wouldn't get hung up on equipment costs when the cost of space is far greater.== I think you misread my comment because this was my exact point. Fundamentally shifting 8-10 hours of our day back to our homes will directly impact how we set up our homes. What might those impacts be? More space is the first one that comes to mind because I feel it everyday with two people working-from-home.

On the bright side though, you can move to a location that has more space at a lower cost. As more people do so, you should also expect to see more restaurants, coffee shops, etc. open up outside of the highest density areas.

And then prices increase... and it's almost like you've just moved the problem from one area to another.

I'm convinced America is just going to continue to sprawl. I don't think there will ever be a case where we'll actually increase the density of cities overall beyond that of typical SFH density. (And thus more cars, less public transit, etc.)

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#304

Post by asdff »

oldsklgdfth wrote: post #296
zaidf wrote: post #14

People won't continue making their current SF salary by working out of Farmville, Ohio. I think this point is missed by many I fully expect Twitter, for example, to come out with salary adjustment policies for people who want to work from home from an entirely different city and state

How much of a paycut is acceptable for a given drop in COL? Ex. SF to Dayton, OH: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=cost+of+living+compari... If your bills were cut in half, what percentage pay cut would you accept?

Personally, I wouldn't accept a cut. However, depending on how the employer calculates COL, I wouldn't be surprised if pay for new hires follows in lock step.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#305

Post by geodel »

aripickar wrote: post #8

I'm pretty bearish on the pandemic actually leading to massive change in the number of people permanently working from home. My boss put out a survey a week or two ago among my org (30 or so people), and 70% said that they want to work from the office, full time, 20% said some time or most of the time, and 10% said fully remote. And this is a group of people that would be largely well suited to working from home duri…

> And this is a group of people that would be largely well suited to working from home during the pandemic (young, no kids, etc).

Seems other way round to me. They are exactly the people who would like to come office, chill in cafe, play foosball, and video games etc and their residence may be small and/ or shared with room mates. People who are older would prefer home so they can take care of family also along with work.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#306

Post by [deleted] »

autokad wrote: post #257
subsubzero wrote: post #18

One thing this doesn't mention is the pay cuts that happen if you do decide to relocate to cheaper areas. Both me and my Wife's company have pay bands based on geographical region(most employees know nothing about this and most companies employ these salary COL changes for relocation) and certain regions you can take a big pay cut. Say your salary in the bay area is 100k for example, move to the South, say Florida an…

I personally have always been against paying people different rates based on geography. if a person offers value, they should be paid for that value regardless. some people say, but shouldnt their cost of living be taken into account? yes previously, but not when we choose to live where we want. I feel like that whole argument goes away once we are choosing where we live. that being said, I would expect companies to…

[deleted]

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#307

Post by formercoder »

aripickar wrote: post #8

I'm pretty bearish on the pandemic actually leading to massive change in the number of people permanently working from home. My boss put out a survey a week or two ago among my org (30 or so people), and 70% said that they want to work from the office, full time, 20% said some time or most of the time, and 10% said fully remote. And this is a group of people that would be largely well suited to working from home duri…

Agreed. There is a ton of “things will never be the same” sentiment. That just cannot be true.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#308

Post by davio »

mattmar96 wrote: post #301
asdff wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter if I have my laptop and a hotspot at the beach with tacos and a bucket of beers. It's an issue with a lack of effective communication on emails/slack/zoom compared with meeting with your colleagues face to face. Productivity has fallen off a cliff among everyone I've asked, and this is the reason.

Personally, I've been way _more_ productive during all of this. And before the pandemic, I was somewhat of an in-office advocate myself.

Same for me. My team members have all told me their productivity is up sharply without me prompting them during 1:1s. I was a strong advocate of in-office work before, but now I think we'll probably plan 2-3 days weekly from home once work returns to the office.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#309

Post by true_religion »

city41 wrote: post #216
smnrchrds wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gitlab famously does this, is very open about it [0], and in general has enjoyed more praise for their all remote structure than hell for their differing salaries. Maybe the companies won't rush to cut salaries of current employees who go remote and move elsewhere. But I fully expect them to offer new hires different salaries based on their location. After all, they already do that with their non-remote offices. It's…

Their SF salaries that anchor this tool seem pretty low. It states $160k for a senior/staff level backend engineer and $185k for frontend.

I would agree. Senior level developers in Virginia, can get 200k as a minimum. The only downside I have found is that companies with high salaries either have more difficult work, or poor work life balance.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#310

Post by djannzjkzxn »

phendrenad2 wrote: post #224
TulliusCicero wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most techies in SF could afford to live relatively close to work, or without roommates, or both. The reason why they don't is still due to the high rent though. When living with a roommate or two, or living a bit further away means you get an extra $1000+ a month to spend on other things, that can be very enticing.

This isn't true, at least of all the tech workers I've worked with. None of them could afford to live within a 30min commute of a downtown SF startup.

I can see how this would be true for a ramen-stage startup but it’s not true in the normal startup job market where engineers get paid six figures. Lots of good places available downtown for One good reason to leave the city would be if you prioritize renting a house with a 6000 sqft suburban lot, which you can’t find in the city. Another would be if you have kids and want a good school district.
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