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Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

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Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#171

Post by oh_hello »

capableweb wrote: post #21
_jal wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> young, no kids, etc There is your major reason for that survey result. Companies with median-older workforces will see more enthusiasm for remote work.

I read it the other way. Only people who are young with no distractions at home, favor working at home. People who usually have family members at home, get too distracted compared to a office environment, to prefer working at home.

Working from home with kids around as we are now is distracting, but under normal circumstances the kids are at school, daycare, or otherwise supervised.

Having a family brings with it some other major concerns. You will want a larger home, a good school district, a safe neighborhood, and a short commute. A childless person who lives in an apartment in the city and doesn't think twice about getting home at 7 is likely to value the time in the office much differently than a parent trying to make brutally expensive house, a miserable commute, and family time work.

As others have touched on, single people might really enjoy the atmosphere of their office space as an escape from small apartments.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#172

Post by mikeryan »

dcolkitt wrote: post #146
aripickar wrote: post #8

I'm pretty bearish on the pandemic actually leading to massive change in the number of people permanently working from home. My boss put out a survey a week or two ago among my org (30 or so people), and 70% said that they want to work from the office, full time, 20% said some time or most of the time, and 10% said fully remote. And this is a group of people that would be largely well suited to working from home duri…

I see it from the opposite side. This won't be employee-pulled, but company-pushed. Many organizations are going to be significantly cash-strapped at the end of this recession. One of the juiciest targets will be cutting the high fixed cost of office leases. Especially in expensive areas like Silicon Valley. If a company can push the average employee to work from home 3 days a week, they can convert to floating desks…

I run a small tech company in the Bay Area, and while rents are not cheap, they end up being a very small percentage of costs - particularly compared to salaries.

I think you'll find some companies that your suggestion as workable but I don't see a lot of companies embracing it wholesale from a financial perspective.

Also most leases are fairly locked it's not an easy way to address short-term cash flow issues, especially compared to reducing headcount.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#173

Post by bradlys »

take_a_breath wrote: post #89
toomuchtodo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mid 30s, partner, two kids, will only work from home. Will not consider a commute or an office. Have worked remotely for almost a decade. Doing the math, I've saved almost 3360 hours by not having to commute (~2 hr/workday), not to mention wear and tear on a vehicle and the associated commute costs. When my office door is closed, everyone knows I'm "at work". If you don't have a separate physical space where you only…

==When my office door is closed, everyone knows I'm "at work". If you don't have a separate physical space where you only work, I can see how this might be a challenge.== Now add a partner who also works from home. Will the extra space (and hardware) needed to comfortably fit all these new home workers be another cost shifted from companies to employees? If my company wants me to work from home much longer; they need…

So... $1000 for a fancy electric standing desk. $1000 for a fancy chair. $1000 for better monitors + arms. $200 for a keyboard. $100 for a mouse. We're looking at less than $3500 for a mid-level setup.

The cost of a bit of equipment is a joke compared to the cost of another bedroom. Adding another room to a house is tens of thousands of dollars. Buying a home with another room is also the same cost or more depending on where you live (bay area - another bedroom can easily be $200k+!). Renting - same problem.

I wouldn't get hung up on equipment costs when the cost of space is far greater. (Even if you replace all furniture every 3 years)

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#174

Post by mbillie1 »

daenz wrote: post #79
subsubzero wrote: post #18

One thing this doesn't mention is the pay cuts that happen if you do decide to relocate to cheaper areas. Both me and my Wife's company have pay bands based on geographical region(most employees know nothing about this and most companies employ these salary COL changes for relocation) and certain regions you can take a big pay cut. Say your salary in the bay area is 100k for example, move to the South, say Florida an…

What's the rationale for this?

The company feels it can decide your quality of life for you, instead of your compensation. It's kind of unethical (imo) but not uncommon. I'm fortunate that my current remote employer does not engage in this sort of thing.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#175

Post by ghaff »

epistasis wrote: post #37
mikestew wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the 90s I remember hearing this too. What, that due to the fact that we're all working from home because of a global pandemic, and my employer says I can WFH long-term, I'm thinking about moving out of SV? You must run with a different crowd than I do, because I don't recall a single person saying that in the 90s.

The headline is the evergreen part; certainly the specifics are different now then they were back then! Edit: also, check out Raldi's link to a 1993 post for complaints about housing costs and more: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23181981 (That said, the housing costs are far worse now then in 1993 on a wage to land price basis, I hear!)

I didn't pursue a few job options during the 90s in the Bay Area in part because of housing costs and companies that weren't offering enough to cover the difference. As you say, relative prices are much worse now. But Bay Area prices were high even then.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#176

Post by mooreds »

_jal wrote: post #13
aripickar wrote: post #8

I'm pretty bearish on the pandemic actually leading to massive change in the number of people permanently working from home. My boss put out a survey a week or two ago among my org (30 or so people), and 70% said that they want to work from the office, full time, 20% said some time or most of the time, and 10% said fully remote. And this is a group of people that would be largely well suited to working from home duri…

> young, no kids, etc There is your major reason for that survey result. Companies with median-older workforces will see more enthusiasm for remote work.

I came here to say this. Working remote forever with my kids at home would be difficult, but when my kids were at school, it was great. The flexibility and lack of commute more than made up for the lack of socializing at work.

When I was younger, the latter was far more important.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#177

Post by TrackerFF »

Living and purchasing a home in a very high COL city feels like a marathon. You know that you won't have paid off your home until many decades later, and you need to maximize your earnings, while minimizing your risks of becoming unemployed. In other words, it can motivate you to become really good at something, but at the same time inducing a lot of stress.

Living in cheap areas, feels very different. I recently move back home, and could pay off my home with two years worth of salary. That's it, no mortgage or anything - just the occasional renovations / upgrades. On the other hand, now that I'm not chained to a mortgage, I need to invest more of my money - in the case I want to move back to somewhere expensive.

Job market isn't anywhere near the same, and salaries are much more compressed. Mid 6 figure salaries are unheard-of, unless you own a company. But it doesn't feel like a rat-race, where you need to hustle all the time.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#178

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

daenz wrote: post #79
subsubzero wrote: post #18

One thing this doesn't mention is the pay cuts that happen if you do decide to relocate to cheaper areas. Both me and my Wife's company have pay bands based on geographical region(most employees know nothing about this and most companies employ these salary COL changes for relocation) and certain regions you can take a big pay cut. Say your salary in the bay area is 100k for example, move to the South, say Florida an…

What's the rationale for this?

Most companies agree with the general consensus that SV software engineers are overpaid, at least a little bit. They aren't willing to pay that premium if they don't feel they have to.

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#179

Post by ryanwaggoner »

viklove wrote: post #84
geddy wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always reading about job openings throughout my country (or world, for that matter) that offer 100% remote positions, and initially the huge difference in salary was pretty jarring. Then I hopped on Trulia for some less populated (not rural, but certainly not close-to-the-city-suburbs), and realized the mortgage for a house twice my size would cost the property taxes I pay now. Literally talking about a $25,000/y…

fuck hn

Wait, for anyone getting paid multiples of the minimum wage, how exactly do you think those comp numbers are set?

Re: Tech workers consider escaping Silicon Valley’s sky-high rents

#180

Post by stagger87 »

kbrwn wrote: post #166

This is constantly brought up on HN in the WFH threads. Your employer cannot arbitrarily reduce your salary. The reduction has to be agreed upon by the employee or the employer has to terminate employment and rehire to reduce salary. Very few big tech companies will update salary for a intra country move. It seems to happen most often when an employee relocates to a new country rather than a new state. This is becaus…

Are you sure about that? Everything I read says an employer can reduce your pay without reason at any time. Can you elaborate?
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