ᴛⷮyрⷬoͦ iͥn ᴛⷮнⷩEͤ 1ˢᵗ ¶ 𝕒𝕗𝕥𝕖𝕣 𝕚𝕟𝕥𝕣𝕠𝕕𝕦𝕔𝕥𝕚𝕠𝕟.
Applying to PhD Programs in Computer Science (2014) [pdf]
51–60 of 106 posts
Re: Applying to PhD Programs in Computer Science (2014) [pdf]
#52> Some people never do research again after completing a Ph.D. For such people, the Ph.D. was largely a waste of time. Is it? Some of my friends went on to start successful companies after getting their PhDs. I'm a bit envious of them actually, I didn't have that option as my research was on an obscure topic with zero commercial potential. > The Ph.D. is a tremendous opportunity. You get to pick an advisor in any res…
This statement reflects the writers' large ego, not reality. It's a shame how this point of view is prominent in the scientific community. I've seen similar rude statements from academic scientists who say that working in R&D at a corporation isn't "real science".
Re: Applying to PhD Programs in Computer Science (2014) [pdf]
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
Agreed. As you noted, you don’t have much to lose by giving it a try, and you can always drop out and get the MS (like I did).
Not much to lose... except four to six years of your life. If you think of your working life, which has maybe 45 years, four to six years is a fairly major cost. That's a fairly high cost even if it's fun . It still may be worth doing, and the fun may tip the scales, but... "don't have much to lose" is I think inaccurate.
Re: Applying to PhD Programs in Computer Science (2014) [pdf]
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not much to lose... except four to six years of your life. If you think of your working life, which has maybe 45 years, four to six years is a fairly major cost. That's a fairly high cost even if it's fun . It still may be worth doing, and the fun may tip the scales, but... "don't have much to lose" is I think inaccurate.
You misunderstood: I was referring to trying out a PhD for those curious about it. Worst case, you spend ~2 years and get out with a MS degree.
Re: Applying to PhD Programs in Computer Science (2014) [pdf]
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Some people never do research again after completing a Ph.D. For such people, the Ph.D. was largely a waste of time I'm in this camp (haven't published since I graduated and joined industry), and I also strongly disagree with this statement. The value of the PhD is how it changes the way you think, how you break down big fuzzy problems, and how it helps you navigate the literature when you need help, and how it hel…
The problem is the definition of "research". If you call it "publication", then yes, it seems like a waste. If you call it "development of new widgets after principled approaches consistent with or beyond the state of the art", it starts to feel like a Ph.D can be training to do really great work in industry.
Person A never does any serious training in a sport, and then goes on to spend 10 years playing "hit and giggle" tennis (say). They probably get a bit better.
Person B spends several years in their youth doing tennis lessons at a high level. They then never take another tennis lesson, ever, but they spend the same 10 years as person A playing recreational tennis, using the skills they have built in their youth as a framework.
I feel that a lot of the stuff I've done recently builds more on the work I did as a commercial researcher (2006-2017, particularly) than it does on my PhD work, but I also think that the 2006-2017 work greatly benefited from my PhD.
Re: Applying to PhD Programs in Computer Science (2014) [pdf]
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
Agreed. As you noted, you don’t have much to lose by giving it a try, and you can always drop out and get the MS (like I did).
Not much to lose... except four to six years of your life. If you think of your working life, which has maybe 45 years, four to six years is a fairly major cost. That's a fairly high cost even if it's fun . It still may be worth doing, and the fun may tip the scales, but... "don't have much to lose" is I think inaccurate.
Incidentally, 4-6 years is a bit of a wildly optimistic estimate, even if you're not as big a screw-up as I was.
Re: Applying to PhD Programs in Computer Science (2014) [pdf]
#57What isn't often discussed is how hard it is to go from a no name school that isn't ranked highly to an elite school. At a non-elite school your recommenders may be unknown to the admissions committee, the 'level' of education these applicants receive can be questionable ("What does an A mean from this program and how does it compare to our class?"), their research experience could be weak, student visibility could b…
I was in this situation, decades ago, and indeed was turned down by CMU. At least back then, CMU like some other elite schools had no MSCS, making it even harder to make the grade coming from Podunk U. My strategy, which worked out okay, was to "bracket" the field by choosing a couple of schools that looked solid and had very large MS class sizes and to just view my "elite" apps as lottery tickets unlikely to pay off…
I applied to 6 schools - doing the "bracketing" thing (CMU+UCB as "reach" schools, Wisconsin-Madison & Washington as "mid" schools and Columbia and U Colorado Boulder as safety schools). I got into everywhere but UCB and Washington, but CMU was my first choice so I was super-happy.
The thing was - there were specific people at Boulder and Columbia that I thought I wanted to work with, but I checked a couple years later out of curiosity, and they'd moved on (around the time I would have been doing a thesis proposal). My first adviser at CMU also went to industry after a couple years and I had to switch advisors and fields, but had a number of excellent choices - as top-tier schools are packed with really good people.
So if your interests shift, or you are forced to have an advisor change, or you wind up working in an area with some adjacencies to your original area (say you start as a networks person but wind up doing a half-networks, half-operating system PhD) you will find good advisors and coadvisors aplenty at a good school.
At an "OK" school there are usually some really good people but they may have zero good people in whole subfields, and you might find that that good academic has left before you start your PhD proper...
Re: Applying to PhD Programs in Computer Science (2014) [pdf]
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
You misunderstood: I was referring to trying out a PhD for those curious about it. Worst case, you spend ~2 years and get out with a MS degree.
That's not so bad, especially when you're 22. But I'm 58 now, and even two years still seems like a long time to me, perhaps because I don't have that many two-year intervals left...
Re: Applying to PhD Programs in Computer Science (2014) [pdf]
#59> Some people never do research again after completing a Ph.D. For such people, the Ph.D. was largely a waste of time. Is it? Some of my friends went on to start successful companies after getting their PhDs. I'm a bit envious of them actually, I didn't have that option as my research was on an obscure topic with zero commercial potential. > The Ph.D. is a tremendous opportunity. You get to pick an advisor in any res…
Agreed, a PhD is absolutely not useless in this industry, even if you don't end up in the research community. Understanding where the research frontiers of various fields are and being able to quickly find / digest relevant technical papers feels like a superpower. The gap between an undergrad education and a research frontier is enormous, and only working on a PhD really gives you the time and incentive to cross it. Having done it once, it gets easier to do it again.
For me, it has turned a huge volume of "unknown unknowns" into "known unknowns" and equipped me with the tools to then convert those into "knowns". Without it I'd be a fine coder, sure. With it I can work on a different tier of projects, and direct my career much better.
The costs are very real, though. Giving up ~6 years of early career earnings in a high-paying industry is utterly insane; you will never, ever make it up short of your startup lottery ticket number coming up. It's a meat grinder for mental health. Dozens of things outside of your control can go wrong and torpedo your aspirations. It is the right choice only for a vanishingly small minority.
Re: Applying to PhD Programs in Computer Science (2014) [pdf]
#60For anybody interested in the computer science PhD process, a good complement to the featured article is Philip Guo's "The PhD Grind" [1]. It's a long (115p, but with big text) blow-by-blow account of the author's PhD at Stanford in the late 00s. It's neither sensationalized nor sanitized, and it's weirdly engrossing for an account of PhD research. I read it before starting grad school and I think it helped my "meta"…