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Applying to PhD Programs in Computer Science (2014) [pdf]

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Re: Applying to PhD Programs in Computer Science (2014) [pdf]

#21

Post by mayank »

scottishcow wrote: post #16

> Some people never do research again after completing a Ph.D. For such people, the Ph.D. was largely a waste of time. Is it? Some of my friends went on to start successful companies after getting their PhDs. I'm a bit envious of them actually, I didn't have that option as my research was on an obscure topic with zero commercial potential. > The Ph.D. is a tremendous opportunity. You get to pick an advisor in any res…

> Some people never do research again after completing a Ph.D. For such people, the Ph.D. was largely a waste of time

I'm in this camp (haven't published since I graduated and joined industry), and I also strongly disagree with this statement. The value of the PhD is how it changes the way you think, how you break down big fuzzy problems, and how it helps you navigate the literature when you need help, and how it helps you know where to look and who to ask.

I've worked on much harder problems than my PhD, but none have felt as hard as the PhD, because of the PhD.

Re: Applying to PhD Programs in Computer Science (2014) [pdf]

#22

Post by tnecniv »

scottishcow wrote: post #16

> Some people never do research again after completing a Ph.D. For such people, the Ph.D. was largely a waste of time. Is it? Some of my friends went on to start successful companies after getting their PhDs. I'm a bit envious of them actually, I didn't have that option as my research was on an obscure topic with zero commercial potential. > The Ph.D. is a tremendous opportunity. You get to pick an advisor in any res…

>> Some people never do research again after completing a Ph.D. For such people, the Ph.D. was largely a waste of time.

> Is it? Some of my friends went on to start successful companies after getting their PhDs. I'm a bit envious of them actually, I didn't have that option as my research was on an obscure topic with zero commercial potential.

There's also plenty of industry positions that benefit from you having a PhD. Certain fields can basically require them, like Chemistry. In CS, you might be able to get a lot of them without one, but the PhD lets you get paid to develop your skill set in niche areas.

Re: Applying to PhD Programs in Computer Science (2014) [pdf]

#23

Post by gaze »

plushprocessor wrote: post #5

What isn't often discussed is how hard it is to go from a no name school that isn't ranked highly to an elite school. At a non-elite school your recommenders may be unknown to the admissions committee, the 'level' of education these applicants receive can be questionable ("What does an A mean from this program and how does it compare to our class?"), their research experience could be weak, student visibility could b…

Yeah I agree. I generally think of each professor as running their own little mafia with their own territory. The top tier professors all know each other and hang out at conferences. At a certain level, there's phone calls instead of letters of recommendation.

Re: Applying to PhD Programs in Computer Science (2014) [pdf]

#24

Post by pxhb »

throwlaplace wrote: post #7
plushprocessor wrote: post #5

What isn't often discussed is how hard it is to go from a no name school that isn't ranked highly to an elite school. At a non-elite school your recommenders may be unknown to the admissions committee, the 'level' of education these applicants receive can be questionable ("What does an A mean from this program and how does it compare to our class?"), their research experience could be weak, student visibility could b…

easiest way to jump tiers is networking i.e. person to person conversations with PIs. if you're able to represent yourself well and describe your own research articulately and authoritatively it'll make up for a great deal of the gap between you and students from "elite" schools. unfortunately this networking happens at conferences which less resource-rich schools can't afford to send undergrads to. my hack: when you…

I second this from my own experience (in physics, undergrad from a state university). I met my grad school advisor at a conference, and would definitely not have been able to get without their support.

Re: Applying to PhD Programs in Computer Science (2014) [pdf]

#25

Post by supernova87a »

> "...You need to know why you want a Ph.D. You need to have vision and ideas and you need to be able to express yourself..."

I've got to stress that this advice is really important.

Especially for people who are considering going into grad school because they're on autopilot or think that it's just a natural continuation of your schooling. That's an easy way to think, but it's not the right way. You can easily lose 6 years of your life in grad school aimlessly this way.

Go into grad school and pursue a PHD because you've got a burning desire to turn one of your good ideas into a breakthrough. If you don't have such an idea based on your undergrad experience, that's already a warning sign that you shouldn't just go to grad school. Another warning sign is if you don't know who (which professor) you want to work for. Grad school is advisor-based in the extreme.

And definitely don't go just because "it's always good to be educated more". That approach will probably leave you disappointed and surprised by what grad school is. As the author mentions, success in grad school is not just more classes. And if you do a random walk because you don't know what you want, you'll waste a lot of time.

Aside from what the author describes in other good points, if you fall into this category of why you "think you want" to go to grad school, do yourself a favor, and get outside your comfort zone and go into the real world of business or a company for a stint. Don't just let yourself go autopilot into grad school because it seems to look like more college. At least have a look outside and try something before you default back to the university.

A few years in a real company taught me much more (and faster), life skills-per-time, than in grad school. Yes, admittedly I came out of grad school with some good technical skills and a whole lot of accumulated knowledge that I put to use today still. But I look back wishing I had learned about real world problem solving and ability to cut the bullshit and get to the bottom line sooner.

Be sure you go in with open eyes. And open them by looking outside first.

Re: Applying to PhD Programs in Computer Science (2014) [pdf]

#26

Post by throwlaplace »

pxhb wrote: post #24
throwlaplace wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

easiest way to jump tiers is networking i.e. person to person conversations with PIs. if you're able to represent yourself well and describe your own research articulately and authoritatively it'll make up for a great deal of the gap between you and students from "elite" schools. unfortunately this networking happens at conferences which less resource-rich schools can't afford to send undergrads to. my hack: when you…

I second this from my own experience (in physics, undergrad from a state university). I met my grad school advisor at a conference, and would definitely not have been able to get without their support.

I was a physics undergrad too. At the time I thought getting into a top school was about being a genius. Now that I'm at a top school (for CS) that I got into through networking I wish someone had told me back then because I might've not given up on physics. It's almost criminal that undergrads are fed stories about needing first author papers in top tier journals and 4.0s and 990s on subject gres to get into these places.

Re: Applying to PhD Programs in Computer Science (2014) [pdf]

#27

Post by asciident »

supernova87a wrote: post #25

> "...You need to know why you want a Ph.D. You need to have vision and ideas and you need to be able to express yourself..." I've got to stress that this advice is really important. Especially for people who are considering going into grad school because they're on autopilot or think that it's just a natural continuation of your schooling. That's an easy way to think, but it's not the right way. You can easily lose…

That's a really surprising opinion to be, because I feel the exact same way but replacing "grad school" with "working at a corporation". I feel that most people go get a job on autopilot, as applying to a PhD requires substantial preparation whereas applying for a job is sort of a default.

Then a job is even more so trading time for money, and easy to lose 6 years, or even 40 years in a blink. And what do you have to show for it? Half the projects get cancelled, 95% of projects at a corporation don't last past 5 years. Your name does not even appear on any work you have done.

Most of the the skills you gain are about how to navigate that specific corporation. This feel to me like the biggest waste of time when I was refreshing Reddit to death at my desk.

At least with a Ph.D., you're at least learning a skill, and gaining a globally recognized credential. Having 10 years at AT&T or Oracle is a decaying credential in comparison. Like you, I'd suggest for people to "get outside your comfort zone" of a business/company and "try something before you default" to a corporate desk job.

Re: Applying to PhD Programs in Computer Science (2014) [pdf]

#28

Post by usmannk »

throwlaplace wrote: post #7
plushprocessor wrote: post #5

What isn't often discussed is how hard it is to go from a no name school that isn't ranked highly to an elite school. At a non-elite school your recommenders may be unknown to the admissions committee, the 'level' of education these applicants receive can be questionable ("What does an A mean from this program and how does it compare to our class?"), their research experience could be weak, student visibility could b…

easiest way to jump tiers is networking i.e. person to person conversations with PIs. if you're able to represent yourself well and describe your own research articulately and authoritatively it'll make up for a great deal of the gap between you and students from "elite" schools. unfortunately this networking happens at conferences which less resource-rich schools can't afford to send undergrads to. my hack: when you…

This comment is extremely helpful to me right now and I'm sure may be to many others as well. Thanks for writing it. If I may, how did you prep for those chats? What did you .. say when you got there? Read some of their papers and bring followups to their conclusions?

For anyone else reading, I want to echo the sentiment here 100x. I'm currently working closely on a research project with a CS prof who is one of the most senior/accomplished at a top-4 (by the ranking in the original pdf, but this is widely agreed upon) CS school due to networking my way in. Though this took way more initial effort than a chat, they had a substantially involved form they used for vetting inbound inquiries.

Re: Applying to PhD Programs in Computer Science (2014) [pdf]

#29

Post by bhl »

bachmeier wrote: post #11

I don't work in CS. I was surprised when I watched this talk[1] by Michael Stonebraker to learn of the "Diarrhea of Papers" > A PhD applicant who wants to get a good academic job should have ~10 papers > A tenure case should have ~40 papers That alone would push me away from a PhD in CS. In economics, it's closer to what he said was the case when he was new: > I got tenure from Berkeley in 1976 — With about 5 papers…

For additional context, Stonebraker helped make Postgres and was the Turing laurate back in 2014.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Stonebraker

Re: Applying to PhD Programs in Computer Science (2014) [pdf]

#30

Post by [deleted] »

asciident wrote: post #27
supernova87a wrote: post #25

> "...You need to know why you want a Ph.D. You need to have vision and ideas and you need to be able to express yourself..." I've got to stress that this advice is really important. Especially for people who are considering going into grad school because they're on autopilot or think that it's just a natural continuation of your schooling. That's an easy way to think, but it's not the right way. You can easily lose…

That's a really surprising opinion to be, because I feel the exact same way but replacing "grad school" with "working at a corporation". I feel that most people go get a job on autopilot, as applying to a PhD requires substantial preparation whereas applying for a job is sort of a default. Then a job is even more so trading time for money, and easy to lose 6 years, or even 40 years in a blink. And what do you have to…

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