Work-from-home boom leads to more surveillance • Hacker News Board

Re: Work-from-home boom leads to more surveillance

#121

Post by tsukurimashou » Wed, May 13, 2020, 5:06 PM UTC

sidlls wrote: post #32

vanilla-almond wrote: post #14

If you want an example of what workplace surveillance software can monitor and capture, watch the following video. It's simply horrible that employees have to put up with this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xA_fJh4lzqQ

Does Interguard have a license from NBC to use characters from “The Office” in their marketing and other materials? It would be pretty funny if they got dinged for this and had some revenue extracted for profiting off someone else’s work because they weren’t productive enough to generate their own content.

speaking out of my ass but from experience, it's probably just an intern that was told to put fake data in there that happened to be fan of 'The office', I can tell you with 99% of certainty they don't have the rights

Re: Work-from-home boom leads to more surveillance

#122

Post by candu » Wed, May 13, 2020, 5:06 PM UTC

_curious_ wrote: post #106

malux85 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't have said it better. One of the reasons I'm a supporter of universal basic income is so that the employees can have a better negotiating position. I suspect many bullshit rules will go out the window when the alternative to employment isn't destitution. For far too long has this negotiation been highly in favour of the employer.

Of all the reasons to be in favor of UBI, this is a first for me to hear...but to the point, the alternative to employment at a company deploying these kinds of tactics is not destitution, it is employment at a company that does not.

That works in certain fields - for instance, many of us here on HN can indeed walk across the street and get a new job if our employers are teetering into miniature surveillance states.

To be honest, though, the average worker doesn't have that kind of leverage, they don't have pockets deep enough to wade through the interview cycle, and many of the other employers they'd go work for are doing exactly the same thing. For them, the alternative to employment at a company deploying these kinds of tactics is very much destitution - especially right now.

I'm with you on one thing: if my employer demanded minute-by-minute accountability for my time, I'd leave, no questions asked and minimum notice given. I have that choice, though; when discussing things like UBI, I always try to remind myself that someone for whom that support would be life-changing is in a very different situation from mine, with a much more constrained set of responses / actions available to them.

Re: Work-from-home boom leads to more surveillance

#123

Post by _curious_ » Wed, May 13, 2020, 5:06 PM UTC

Everyone has a choice: yes or no.

Consequences may vary, but then again, no-one is owed anything legally, morally, or otherwise so to act as though every individual does not have or exercise their own self-agency is disingenuous.

Re: Work-from-home boom leads to more surveillance

#124

Post by _curious_ » Wed, May 13, 2020, 5:07 PM UTC

vanilla-almond wrote: post #14

If you want an example of what workplace surveillance software can monitor and capture, watch the following video. It's simply horrible that employees have to put up with this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xA_fJh4lzqQ

No one has to put up with anything, everyone gets to decide, and they even get to review that decision on a daily basis!

Don't like what a job is asking you do to? Don't like a policy? Don't like spyware? Peace out.

Re: Work-from-home boom leads to more surveillance

#125

Post by Avicebron » Wed, May 13, 2020, 5:07 PM UTC

chepaslaaa wrote: post #88

hangphyr wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bit of a tangent, but one should be careful with that path. Not all employers are 'evil' and have negative intentions for their employees. Think of an example such as the independently owned restaurant that cannot afford to pay employees high wages and their owners are not wealthy. Just as not all employees can be painted as untrustworthy and hostile, not all employers should be painted as untrustworthy and…

I've been a line cook, restaurant owners are absolutely untrustworthy and hostile. The food industry is one where exploitation, highly aggressive staff retention practices (making employees dependent on you for a visa, threatening to spread lies about you, etc.), crazy unhealthy hours and just a generally awful culture are standard.

Can vouch for the life science industry being like this as well. Management threatened to make us check in every hour of work. Spending an eighth of that hour writing an explanatory email was pretty toxic.

Re: Work-from-home boom leads to more surveillance

#126

Post by HumblyTossed » Wed, May 13, 2020, 5:09 PM UTC

_curious_ wrote: post #114

Counterthought: anyone who would knowingly and willingly install spyware on their personal computer deserves to lose their privacy.

No they don't. They have two choices; quit or be fired. Personally, I would quit, but I've got that type of personality. Others can't just up and quit so they comply.

Re: Work-from-home boom leads to more surveillance

#127

Post by _curious_ » Wed, May 13, 2020, 5:09 PM UTC

Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote: post #116

_curious_ wrote: post #111

That's a dramatic exaggeration...companies you describe exist everywhere and it's up to the individuals to change if they don't like it.

Victim blaming like this breeds radicalization. Need I say more?

Depends, could you elaborate on what you did say because I don't follow. Thanks!

Re: Work-from-home boom leads to more surveillance

#128

Post by squnch » Wed, May 13, 2020, 5:10 PM UTC

iask wrote: post #12

It’s old-fashion management. If you don’t understand your employees workload and don’t trust them then either you resign or fire the employees. Simple as that. I don’t see how this makes any employee productive. This adds more stress imo. An employee gives you 8 of their 12 hour day. Now, you tell me if that works only for you - the management. They’re people just like you. They have a life just like you. They have r…

Well you have to realize that most managers have no idea why they have it so good. When so many children are starving to death worldwide, why do they live in a 4 bedroom house with a pool? Do they have exceptional talent or intelligence? No. So they fundamentally operate from a place of fear. It’s like Twitter holding onto 140 characters forever — they had no idea why they were so successful, so their approach was “don’t touch it, you might break it.”

If you are a heart surgeon or Lebron James you can understand why you are making so much money — you have exceptional skill at something in high demand. The average manager is more like someone who found a bank error in their favor and prays every morning that it isn’t discovered.

Re: Work-from-home boom leads to more surveillance

#129

Post by _curious_ » Wed, May 13, 2020, 5:10 PM UTC

candu wrote: post #122

_curious_ wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of all the reasons to be in favor of UBI, this is a first for me to hear...but to the point, the alternative to employment at a company deploying these kinds of tactics is not destitution, it is employment at a company that does not.

That works in certain fields - for instance, many of us here on HN can indeed walk across the street and get a new job if our employers are teetering into miniature surveillance states. To be honest, though, the average worker doesn't have that kind of leverage, they don't have pockets deep enough to wade through the interview cycle, and many of the other employers they'd go work for are doing exactly the same thing.…

They have all that they need should they decide to use it: the power of self-agency. That's the only and ultimate leverage anyone has if nothing else...

Re: Work-from-home boom leads to more surveillance

#130

Post by mar77i » Wed, May 13, 2020, 5:10 PM UTC

malux85 wrote: post #38

iask wrote: post #12

It’s old-fashion management. If you don’t understand your employees workload and don’t trust them then either you resign or fire the employees. Simple as that. I don’t see how this makes any employee productive. This adds more stress imo. An employee gives you 8 of their 12 hour day. Now, you tell me if that works only for you - the management. They’re people just like you. They have a life just like you. They have r…

Couldn't have said it better. One of the reasons I'm a supporter of universal basic income is so that the employees can have a better negotiating position. I suspect many bullshit rules will go out the window when the alternative to employment isn't destitution. For far too long has this negotiation been highly in favour of the employer.

Looming destitution never made good work. The way one engages with a good employer is a sense of co-ownership in some way. I can't tell how my way of taking ownership to an arbitrary project is influenced by a relief of financial stress. It might, but I don't believe it's going to up it any, ever.

Which means that with UBI, I might be less inclined to take risks. I'm not an economist enough to tell what that means, but a rough estimate say it won't increase my income. And at this point of the discussion, we haven't even touched the topic of taxes...