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My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

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Re: My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

#91

Post by downvoteme1 »

Thorentis wrote: post #25

Is it true you still need an "open source coding resume" by mid-career stage? I can understand using that to give you an advantage for entry-level roles, but by "mid-career" shouldn't your experience and achievements in past roles speak for itself? Or do companies still want to see engineers spending their spare time doing unpaid coding? By mid-career, many people have families to support, that they also would like t…

I think the going consensus is that your github etc does not matter if you can leetcode. However the equation might have changed drastically in the last 8 weeks as now there are number of laid off people searching while most companies have put hiring on hold.

Re: My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

#92

Post by srl »

mister_hn wrote: post #82
dehrmann wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe you're too arrogant, not arrogant enough For all the criticism hacker news gives whiteboard algorithm interviews, those at least are testing performance under pressure for a skill related to the job. Arrogance is a bigger problem in interviews. What comes off as confidence in an interview might come off as asshole at work.

But you know? Do you ask a plumber to show you how to connect tubes, before hiring him? Whiteboard interviews aren't even real life situations.

> Do you ask a plumber to show you how to connect tubes, before hiring him?

If the previous two plumbers I'd hired had turned out not to know how to connect tubes... yeah, I might.

Re: My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

#93

Post by nnoitra »

georgeburdell wrote: post #29

I look at that resume and I wonder if it didn't hurt more than it helped; it's form over function, and a bit corny. The fact that he got multiple offers in two months shows how strong the software job market is. I'm several years younger, but a staff-level hardware engineer at a second tier company (top tier being FAANG). I've had an incredibly difficult time jumping companies --- 2 years and counting. Despite being…

Could it be that you are overqualified?

How was your PhD experience, do you think it has helped your career considering the opportunity cost?

Re: My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

#94

Post by nnq »

georgeburdell wrote: post #29

I look at that resume and I wonder if it didn't hurt more than it helped; it's form over function, and a bit corny. The fact that he got multiple offers in two months shows how strong the software job market is. I'm several years younger, but a staff-level hardware engineer at a second tier company (top tier being FAANG). I've had an incredibly difficult time jumping companies --- 2 years and counting. Despite being…

> hardware engineer

Software's different because you can hire-fast & fire-fast. Unless you have broken processes and incompetent people surrounding the new hire, you can easily determine if they're good enough. Hack, it's even worth it to hire 2 devs for everyone you need and fire the worst performing one in a few months (flip a coin if they're pretty equal and can't afford them both).

Easier to get fired, easier to get hired. Churn and less from your employer giving a f about your career development. Every industry has its patterns.

Actually, imo the worst thing you can do as a software tech-lead is to structure your processes and projects so that hire-fast-fire-fast is no longer viable, do things so that your software is more like hardware - this is a sure way to inevitably kill the company/department you work for while "doing good work"...

Re: My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

#95

Post by alextheparrot »

mister_hn wrote: post #82
dehrmann wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe you're too arrogant, not arrogant enough For all the criticism hacker news gives whiteboard algorithm interviews, those at least are testing performance under pressure for a skill related to the job. Arrogance is a bigger problem in interviews. What comes off as confidence in an interview might come off as asshole at work.

But you know? Do you ask a plumber to show you how to connect tubes, before hiring him? Whiteboard interviews aren't even real life situations.

This seems a bit unfair, as I don’t ask the plumber likely because of trade skills being centrally licensed and regulated. Presumably if they are licensed to do the job someone else has already done the vetting - which makes sense especially for consumer-focused skills where the consumer might not be able to perform an adequate vetting.

I understand the core idea of your comment, regarding the utility of whiteboard interviews to assess skill. Irrespective, vetting is a part of many skilled jobs. The difference in the analogy and software being whether a centralised institution (Licensing body) or each company does that vetting.

Re: My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

#96

Post by dehrmann »

mister_hn wrote: post #82
dehrmann wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe you're too arrogant, not arrogant enough For all the criticism hacker news gives whiteboard algorithm interviews, those at least are testing performance under pressure for a skill related to the job. Arrogance is a bigger problem in interviews. What comes off as confidence in an interview might come off as asshole at work.

But you know? Do you ask a plumber to show you how to connect tubes, before hiring him? Whiteboard interviews aren't even real life situations.

I wasn't trying to have another instance of the whiteboard interview debate. My point was about arrogance and how we should give it more attention as a bad signal than we do.

Re: My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

#97

Post by smt88 »

wolco wrote: post #81
karatestomp wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it true you still need an "open source coding resume" by mid-career stage? Who knows? Every company wants something different and most of them seem reluctant to provide that information up front, inexplicably. Maybe lead with “we expect to go over some of your code with you” or “we’ll be doing 2 hours of whiteboarding, but nothing above leetcode easy” or whatever. Every interview (outside certain major companies…

I think you hit the nail on the head. The various random things that can be thrown at you is incredible. Add that to different personality requirements. Most want extroverts during the interview process but introverted after hired.

You can be a good communicator and an introvert and nail a job interview.

The hurdle for introverts is usually that they feel anxiety (some of which is normal for a job interview!) and may not come across as well as they would in a more comfortable setting.

Re: My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

#98

Post by smt88 »

MattGaiser wrote: post #33
Thorentis wrote: post #25

Is it true you still need an "open source coding resume" by mid-career stage? I can understand using that to give you an advantage for entry-level roles, but by "mid-career" shouldn't your experience and achievements in past roles speak for itself? Or do companies still want to see engineers spending their spare time doing unpaid coding? By mid-career, many people have families to support, that they also would like t…

> By mid-career, many people have families to support, that they also would like to spend time with in their down time. I have never hired anyone, but anecdotally from a team lead dev who has hired a couple dozen people, that is the exact kind of thing they want to avoid. If someone was a "star" working 90 hours a week in the past but now wants to work 40, they stop being the kind of "star" some companies want.

That team lead (and companies with similar thinking) need to learn that obsessive/workaholic devs are not more productive.

If coding consumes your paid and free time, you're generally not cranking out new CRUD features requested by the marketing team. You're doing pet projects, learning new languages, or getting lost in bikeshedding, like writing a new JS framework because you think the current list sucks.

That means your workaholic employee is burning out on things that don't help your company, and their actual paid work is probably a distraction from what they really want to be doing.

By contrast, someone experienced with a family and/or hobbies working 40h will often do their work well and have ways to detox from work problems before getting started again the next morning.

A lot of that is my anecdata, but hiring people who want work/life balance is working so well that those are the only devs I have (14 at the moment).

Re: My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

#100

Post by renewiltord »

Thorentis wrote: post #25

Is it true you still need an "open source coding resume" by mid-career stage? I can understand using that to give you an advantage for entry-level roles, but by "mid-career" shouldn't your experience and achievements in past roles speak for itself? Or do companies still want to see engineers spending their spare time doing unpaid coding? By mid-career, many people have families to support, that they also would like t…

I skipped our whiteboarding exercise with a candidate based on reading an original GitHub project of his.

I didn't notice him because of the project, I wouldn't have ignored him without the project but the repo gave me enough info to know he was capable. If he hadn't already done that, then we'd just have to go through some demonstration of programming ability.

It's been a few months and I'm ready to call this a win.

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