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My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

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Re: My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

#81

Post by wolco »

karatestomp wrote: post #36
Thorentis wrote: post #25

Is it true you still need an "open source coding resume" by mid-career stage? I can understand using that to give you an advantage for entry-level roles, but by "mid-career" shouldn't your experience and achievements in past roles speak for itself? Or do companies still want to see engineers spending their spare time doing unpaid coding? By mid-career, many people have families to support, that they also would like t…

> Is it true you still need an "open source coding resume" by mid-career stage? Who knows? Every company wants something different and most of them seem reluctant to provide that information up front, inexplicably. Maybe lead with “we expect to go over some of your code with you” or “we’ll be doing 2 hours of whiteboarding, but nothing above leetcode easy” or whatever. Every interview (outside certain major companies…

I think you hit the nail on the head. The various random things that can be thrown at you is incredible.

Add that to different personality requirements. Most want extroverts during the interview process but introverted after hired.

Re: My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

#82

Post by mister_hn »

dehrmann wrote: post #60
marcinzm wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like something about how you come off in interviews throws off red flags to the person interviewing you. Maybe you're too arrogant, not arrogant enough, not driven enough, etc. Most top tier companies will give you a list of personality qualities they are looking for that they expect you to show in the initial interview. I'd recommend doing a mock interview with someone you trust who has hired people to see…

> Maybe you're too arrogant, not arrogant enough For all the criticism hacker news gives whiteboard algorithm interviews, those at least are testing performance under pressure for a skill related to the job. Arrogance is a bigger problem in interviews. What comes off as confidence in an interview might come off as asshole at work.

But you know? Do you ask a plumber to show you how to connect tubes, before hiring him?

Whiteboard interviews aren't even real life situations.

Re: My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

#83

Post by wolco »

soneca wrote: post #22
marcinzm wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's in the cover letter.

Got it, thanks. Still, I am reading it with more generous eyes I think. It seemed to be used to contextualize their communication skills. Not as ”I am better than most” , more like ”I have this unique trait that you might value” . But I can see how it could be read

Plus he backs it up with speaking. It's narrow and credible enough that it works.

It doesn't work with a thin resume.

Re: My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

#84

Post by seer »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #57
Thorentis wrote: post #25

Is it true you still need an "open source coding resume" by mid-career stage? I can understand using that to give you an advantage for entry-level roles, but by "mid-career" shouldn't your experience and achievements in past roles speak for itself? Or do companies still want to see engineers spending their spare time doing unpaid coding? By mid-career, many people have families to support, that they also would like t…

If your resume is a "yes" at first read, your GitHub projects won't matter. Likewise, if your resume experience is a "no", they're not going to visit GitHub to change their minds. Where it starts to matter is if your resume is a "maybe" on first read. If they're not quite sure if your experience is what they're looking for, they might make an effort to probe around your GitHub profile for extra information. Having ev…

A lot of the time you’re not reviewed in isolation. There is a stack of resumes and 5 of them are a yes, but there’s a budget for 2. Or you have roughly the same experience but demand a bit more money.

In all of those cases having a real provable thing they can anchor their decision on is a big win.

Anything in a resume can be suspect. Every time you describe something awesome you did at a previous job, there is “another side” - for example you built this microservice that scales this problematic thing and everyone was happy, but after you left there is not enough docs and now people are struggling to maintain it. Or you were great at code review and everyone really appreciated your input, but it turns out they were shy and didn’t tell it to your face, but complained about you behind your back.

Anyway open source work is a very clear way for someone evaluating you to have a concrete data point. It might not be accurate, but the interviewer will often perceive it as such. The old “a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush” kind of mentality.

But its more than that. People usually make it as a ”will this achieve my goals” kind of thing. You don’t do open source _just_ so you’ll get an additional interview. You do OS because you’re helping the global human understanding, you’re becoming a better, more helpful and knowledgeable dev, and because it’s your passion.

And if you are those things, it’s a great sign for the interviewer that you can be a good fit for almost any dev position.

Re: My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

#85

Post by wolco »

MattGaiser wrote: post #35
t_1589165433 wrote: post #19

How on earth do people have these experiences? I have to submit multiple hundreds of applications to get one interview. Throwaway because it could turn into multiple thousands if that fact is linked to my identity.

I'm a junior dev and my ratio last year when finding a new grad position was about 1 interview per 10 applications. I suspect you are doing something very wrong there. And that was primarily with blind online applications. If you would like a hand or just want someone to read over your resume and see, my email is 13mdg5@queensu.ca. Would be happy to help.

I found this to be true depending on job source.

Local positions depending on the match can be 8 / 10.

Remote roles in other countries. Indeed 1 in 25. Stackoverflow 1 in 100. Angelist 2 in 10 (best 10) then 1 in 25.

Re: My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

#86

Post by cmarschner »

bitL wrote: post #61
Thorentis wrote: post #25

Is it true you still need an "open source coding resume" by mid-career stage? I can understand using that to give you an advantage for entry-level roles, but by "mid-career" shouldn't your experience and achievements in past roles speak for itself? Or do companies still want to see engineers spending their spare time doing unpaid coding? By mid-career, many people have families to support, that they also would like t…

Not only open source coding resume, but also Leetcode-hard proficiency for entry-level jobs (not joking; ofc this is waived if you know the right people). Welcome to the insanity of contemporary tech industry! BTW, almost nobody clicks on links in your CV.

I have clicked on github links in resumes many times, and I have yet to get impressed. Most of the time you‘d find empty repositories, some forks that were never touched, and other garbage, and hardly any activity. If you can‘t clean up your profile when submitting an application, just remove that link.

Re: My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

#87

Post by mettamage »

lynchdt wrote: post #10

Some perhaps unsolicited advice from a hiring manager in a company very similar to the great ones in which this writer was unsuccessful. - Rare programmers won’t identify themselves as such. - Most great companies hire for humility as a trait.

I want to ask a silly question. I know there are no such things as silly questions according to some people. In any case:

What happens if great companies do not hire for humility as a trait?

Is it truly as simple as: too many unkind people get into the company?

Or could one be more cynical and say: it's easier to not have humble people negotiate tough salaries?

Or is it something completely different?

I honestly don't know and have no reference.

Re: My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

#88

Post by nnoitra »

georgeburdell wrote: post #29

I look at that resume and I wonder if it didn't hurt more than it helped; it's form over function, and a bit corny. The fact that he got multiple offers in two months shows how strong the software job market is. I'm several years younger, but a staff-level hardware engineer at a second tier company (top tier being FAANG). I've had an incredibly difficult time jumping companies --- 2 years and counting. Despite being…

>I'm several years younger

The author looks 20 years old.

Re: My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

#89

Post by p410n3 »

wolco wrote: post #79
bitL wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some time ago a senior recruiter at Google suggested to me that they would have waived some interviews if I had a famous open-source project on my resume.

Famous open source project > 10000+ likes.

I'll just open source my bot that gives my project 10k likes and call it a day

Re: My Mid-Career Job-Hunt: A Data Point for Job-Seeking Devs

#90

Post by wolco »

cortesoft wrote: post #55
t_1589165433 wrote: post #19

How on earth do people have these experiences? I have to submit multiple hundreds of applications to get one interview. Throwaway because it could turn into multiple thousands if that fact is linked to my identity.

What is your experience level and location? For me, every job after my first one (15 years ago) has been via reaching out to the people I have worked with before. Do you have people you have worked with who are at new places?

The problem with that approach is you get less broad based experience and limit your circle.
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