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Getting Back to Work

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Re: Getting Back to Work

#301

Post by [deleted] »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #297
dang wrote: post #44

Three threads on this already: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23126517 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23127552 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23129216 Not sure this one is going any better. Celebrity frenzy multiplied by pandemic rage is producing as wild a burn as we've seen on HN. If you're about to comment here, could you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html first and ma…

>Not sure this one is going any better. Celebrity frenzy multiplied by pandemic rage is producing as wild a burn as we've seen on HN. I take issue with this line. That is your opinion and you're injecting a negative motive into this thread. Your warning would have the same effect with this removed.

[deleted]

Re: Getting Back to Work

#302

Post by babesh »

mbreese wrote: post #288
babesh wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was an immediate and massive run on n95 masks. Those do protect you much better. I think it was mostly to protect the supply for medical providers. Also my understanding is that even cloth masks somewhat protect against droplets.

I'm sorry, but your understanding in this regard is mistaken. Non-N95 masks are simply not designed for this purpose. They will always let in outside (contaminated) air. From the Ars Technica article above (which I believe is citing this paper: https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/bmjopen/5/4/e006577.full.pdf ) > Wearing cloth masks resulted in significantly higher rates of infection, the authors found. They also noted th…

This is cut and pasted from the CDC. Read about what surgical masks do "protects the wearer's nose and mouth from contact with droplets, splashes and sprays that may contain germs".

Surgical masks

Also called a medical mask, a surgical mask is a loose-fitting disposable mask that protects the wearer's nose and mouth from contact with droplets, splashes and sprays that may contain germs. A surgical mask also filters out large particles in the air. Surgical masks may protect others by reducing exposure to the saliva and respiratory secretions of the mask wearer.

At this time, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration has not approved any type of surgical mask specifically for protection against the COVID-19 virus, but these masks may provide some protection when N95 masks are not available.

N95 masks

Actually a type of respirator, an N95 mask offers more protection than a surgical mask does because it can filter out both large and small particles. The name indicates that the mask is designed to block 95% of very small particles. Like surgical masks, N95 masks are intended to be disposable. However, researchers are testing ways to disinfect N95 masks so they can be reused.

Cloth masks

While surgical and N95 masks are in short supply, cloth masks are more accessible and reusable. Although cloth masks and N95 masks have different purposes, both are intended to slow the spread of COVID-19. A cloth mask is worn to help protect others in case the wearer has the virus. An N95 mask helps protect the wearer from getting the virus from others.

Re: Getting Back to Work

#303

Post by sangnoir »

NamTaf wrote: post #45
otakucode wrote: post #7

What I didn't see mentioned that concerns me (although I admit it might be a concern born purely out of ignorance): No mention of whether employees would be provided with a minimum of 2 weeks paid sick leave should they show symptoms of COVID-19. Any employee who has a reasonable chance of becoming ill with COVID-19 at their work, and who does not also have a minimum of 2 weeks paid leave, should, by all logic I can…

"There is no winning play." That's by design. There's no winning play for the line worker, because providing one reduces the returns for the investors. If it wasn't already obvious before this, the corona response by the US has thrown into sharp relief how stacked the deck is - from top to bottom - against the common worker.

I mean, the name of the economic system is pretty blatant. "Capitalism" is exactly what it says on the tin, and it's pretty unbridled in the US, to its own detriment (long-term), IMO.

Re: Getting Back to Work

#304

Post by YZF »

mbreese wrote: post #288
babesh wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was an immediate and massive run on n95 masks. Those do protect you much better. I think it was mostly to protect the supply for medical providers. Also my understanding is that even cloth masks somewhat protect against droplets.

I'm sorry, but your understanding in this regard is mistaken. Non-N95 masks are simply not designed for this purpose. They will always let in outside (contaminated) air. From the Ars Technica article above (which I believe is citing this paper: https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/bmjopen/5/4/e006577.full.pdf ) > Wearing cloth masks resulted in significantly higher rates of infection, the authors found. They also noted th…

> It is also unknown whether the rates of infection observed in the cloth mask arm are the same or higher than in HCWs who do not wear a mask, as almost all participants in the control arm used a mask.

from the referenced study. The study doesn't say that cloth masks do nothing, they just say medical masks work better, they don't compare them to N95 masks either. There's other variables not controlled, the specific kind of virus etc.

Re: Getting Back to Work

#305

Post by koheripbal »

dang wrote: post #251
koheripbal wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we need to do more in this space. As HackerNews had become more popular, it has begun the inevitable transformation from a place of analysis to a place of advocacy. ...which inevitably results in a drop in quality and substance and a rise in partisanship. HackerNews thrived for a long time by keeping under the radar, but what we really need now is a new mechanic that rewards dispationate analytic content and…

Concerns like this are perennial: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=926604 . A couple years ago I gathered a bunch of links about the history of "HN getting more political": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17014869 . That's not to say there isn't a decline, just that it's hard to discuss objectively. The dominant factor in such perceptions is randomness; more precisely, the streaks that occur in randomness th…

This doesn't negate my point at all.

If I list all the 1990 articles warning about Global Warming, does that somehow mean it's not a real and serious problem?

Re: Getting Back to Work

#306

Post by goatlover »

centimeter wrote: post #189
goatlover wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current 280k death toll would be higher and and heading towards 1918 Influence deaths with many hospitals being overwhelmed. That's what the lock downs are preventing, and that's why things aren't as bad as the models predicted, because we took action to slow the spread of the virus. But maybe you think 50 million deaths are worth keeping the economy rolling along (and that millions dying and health care failing…

The evidence from Sweden and from serological data everywhere doesn’t suggest that to be the case. It’s looking more and more like the lockdowns are actually accomplishing approximately nothing. But I can tell you didn’t consider/understand my point about why it’s stupid to just optimize for “number of deaths”, which is the relevant part.

The evidence from the US, Italy, Spain, UK and France is that a lack of early lockdown led to the number of cases and deaths we see now.

Re: Getting Back to Work

#307

Post by goatlover »

concordDance wrote: post #108
haakonhr wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US isn't the only country in the world

Given the grandparent was in a thread on a US company in California I assumed a US context.

I compared it to 1918 Influenza's global death count/estimate. 50 million people worldwide is a lot, even with the 7.8 billion we have. And 2 million US deaths would be a lot as well. I think it's worth some inconvenience and economic slowdown to prevent millions of deaths.

Re: Getting Back to Work

#308

Post by yndoendo »

babesh wrote: post #242
zzleeper wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Had the US (at all govt levels) actually treated this seriously, as a health problem and not economic/political problem, we could be in a situation like Taiwan/NZ. The US is large, but mostly insulated, so this was feasible. But it would have required EVERYONE wearing masks, and no delays in locking things down (one day of delay in an exponential situation is like 4 more days of lockdown at the other end)

Manipulation whether in good or bad faith is one is the biggest problems in the US. It’s is coming from both sides. Don’t vote for those who will manipulate you.

I would have to say that lack of Critical Thinking and latching to Group Think are the biggest problems in the US. These lead to the inability to criticize whom one voted for or people with-in their own groups.

Saying something direct often will change the outcome and have the opposite of the wanted response. For example:

Two men both buy flowers for women they like. The first man tells her the truth, "I bought them hoping it would increase my chance for sex". The other says, "I thought you might like these", while actually thinking I want to have sex. Which person was better at marketing themselves and have a higher probability of a better outcome?

This is actually from "Alchemy: The Surprising Power of Ideas That Don't Make Sense", https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/26210508-alchemy.

Manipulation has no concept of bad or good but is required in our society to help prevent people from throwing away good ideas.

Re: Getting Back to Work

#309

Post by urda »

urda wrote: post #9
mnm1 wrote: post #4

It's obviously essential, critical work to fill up giant parking lots with new cars no one is going to buy. That's a great reason to resume work during the pandemic. I can't believe they even got shut down in the first place. If there aren't at least ten teslas for every American that can't afford them, we have failed as a society.

A luxury vehicle manufacturer is not essential. Elon is rushing things so he can make a buck, at the costs (and possibly lives) of his workers.

The fact that HN would rather downvote this comment and is OK with people getting killed is absolutely disgusting. I've literally had both friends and family die because of bad actors like Elon.

HN you disappoint me, but I guess it's comes as no shock when you're obsessed with VCs and making a buck, instead of trying to help others.

Re: Getting Back to Work

#310

Post by dang »

koheripbal wrote: post #305
dang wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Concerns like this are perennial: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=926604 . A couple years ago I gathered a bunch of links about the history of "HN getting more political": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17014869 . That's not to say there isn't a decline, just that it's hard to discuss objectively. The dominant factor in such perceptions is randomness; more precisely, the streaks that occur in randomness th…

This doesn't negate my point at all. If I list all the 1990 articles warning about Global Warming, does that somehow mean it's not a real and serious problem?

If I argue the point using that analogy, someone is bound to take it the wrong way.

If people keep seeing signs of apocalypse for 30 years, they always say the same things, the apocalypse never comes, and there's a simple alternative explanation, that weakens the case for apocalypse, no? At a minimum the burden is on 2020 to show how the same perception now is more objective than it was in 2010, or 2008 for that matter, when people were also saying this. The simple explanation is that internet users always perceive things this way.

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