I’ve been planning to get a Tesla, but I can’t buy one anymore. Between this and all the crazy, and sometimes illegal, shit Elon says, I just cant do it.
Anecdotes are worthless.
Getting Back to Work
191–200 of 332 posts
Re: Getting Back to Work
#192Cancelling my Tesla pre-order - this is an abuse of workers (more blatant than before).
Aside from being a meaningless anecdote, your claim is unproven. How are we supposed to know that you really had an order? Also, this comment is pure advocacy. We come here for analysis and depth.
I see you've posted this at least once more: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23129942
Seems like you're just spamming without staying relevant to the topic here.
Re: Getting Back to Work
#193Cancelling my Tesla pre-order - this is an abuse of workers (more blatant than before).
I'm just about to place an order. Glad to cancel yours out. Tesla and everyone and thing that makes it up is awesome.
Re: Getting Back to Work
#194Earlier quoted context omitted.
Lives are the economy. The lockdown protects the economy.
Are you intentionally being simplistic or do you really think that’s a reasonable statement? Are you literally trying to claim that any given life is a fungible economic unit? According to the NHS, over half of deaths attributed to covid in the UK were going to die within a year anyway, from other causes. Over half of deaths are from nursing homes in many places. We’re sacrificing the economic livelihoods of our chil…
> According to the NHS, over half of deaths attributed to covid in the UK were going to die within a year anyway,
This is untrue. Most people who died were expected to live for another ten years.
https://wellcomeopenresearch.org/articles/5-75/v1
> Results: Using the standard WHO life tables, YLL (Years of Life Lost) per COVID-19 death was 14 for men and 12 for women. After adjustment for number and type of LTCs, the mean YLL was slightly lower, but remained high (13 and 11 years for men and women, respectively). The number and type of LTCs led to wide variability in the estimated YLL at a given age (e.g. at ≥80 years, YLL was >10 years for people with 0 LTCs, and > Conclusions: Deaths from COVID-19 represent a substantial burden in terms of per-person YLL, more than a decade, even after adjusting for the typical number and type of LTCs found in people dying of COVID-19. The extent of multimorbidity heavily influences the estimated YLL at a given age. More comprehensive and standardised collection of data on LTCs is needed to better understand and quantify the global burden of COVID-19 and to guide policy-making and interventions.
https://www.gla.ac.uk/news/headline_720672_en.html
> “This new analysis found that death from COVID-19 results in over 10 years of life lost per person, even after taking account of the typical number and type of chronic conditions found in people dying of COVID-19. Among people dying of COVID-19, the number of years of life lost PER PERSON appear similar to diseases such as coronary heart disease. Information such as this is important to ensure governments and the public do not wrongly underestimate the effects of COVID-19 on individuals,” he added.
Re: Getting Back to Work
#195Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is the same car plant that produces triple the number of OSHA violations as any of its competitors (combined). If that plant has a record, it is one ignoring safety.
A source: > A review by Forbes found 24 investigations by California Occupational Safety and Health Administration inspectors from 2014 to 2018, resulting in fines for 54 violations. These include new penalties that haven't yet hit the national online OSHA database, and they nearly double Tesla's fines over the last five years, to $236,730. * https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2019/03/01/tesla-sa...
Is 54 violations over four years high or low for a factory of that size? I lack any sort of baseline for this sort of thing.
Re: Getting Back to Work
#196I’d like to know what Tesla factory workers think. It’s seeming clear to me from various polls that at most 20% of Americans think ‘oh everything is fine let’s go back to work and school tomorrow.’ So opinions on social distancing are not as polarized as you would think from the media.
What they think is about as relevant as opinion polls from a misinformed public. People largely have their mind made up about it about the covid because it's more of a religion now than anything else. Nevermind the numerous serology studies from multiple different countries which show exposure to the virus is highly prevalent with most individuals being asymptomatic. Nevermind the multiple recent studies in the U.S.…
The estimated fatality rate with everything taken into account is around 0.5%. That's covering asymptomatic people, etc, etc. Assuming 200 million Americans get infected the result is 1 million additional deaths. That's a lot.
Re: Getting Back to Work
#197Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s very difficult to live life to the max when you’re dead, or in hospital for weeks. The idea that a rampant COVID-19 would cost a few months of life expectancy, or that victims of the virus are not economically productive is not supported by the evidence we do have, e.g. https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/05/02/would-mo... We all want the lockdown to end as soon possible, but when we do it, we need to…
I don't see how that graph supports your point. It seems to be about years of life lost per death, rather than years of life lost per infection. It's also not correct stats to bucket data this strongly as you end up assuming that the dead are a representative sample of the population in your buckets (in this case, age and number of conditions). For example, if there are two subpopulations in each bucket, one with a m…
My apologies for the paywall link and for the fact that the study doesn’t really support all the points I was trying to make. I take your point about not assuming the breakdown of the deceased group is representative of the general population. Original paper is here: https://wellcomeopenresearch.org/articles/5-75
The article does go on to make the claim that 20% of the deceased would be individuals in their 50s and 60s, a cohort willing and able to make substantial contributions to productivity. That runs counter to the notion that the virus would just run it’s scythe through people who would be on their death beds anyway.
I would say this argument sounds like a special case of the broken window fallacy, and that allowing people to die is just a poor economic policy. Just because you’re not producing, doesn’t mean you’re economically inert–removing retirees and even care home residents from the economy would represent a significant reduction in demand, with the attendant economic headaches that creates.
Re: Getting Back to Work
#198What I didn't see mentioned that concerns me (although I admit it might be a concern born purely out of ignorance): No mention of whether employees would be provided with a minimum of 2 weeks paid sick leave should they show symptoms of COVID-19. Any employee who has a reasonable chance of becoming ill with COVID-19 at their work, and who does not also have a minimum of 2 weeks paid leave, should, by all logic I can…
Fundamental flaws in US health care and worker protection exposed. That's what this is. Compare to the system in my native Belgium: - a month of 100% paid sick leave, paid by the employer - followed by five months 60% of wage in sick leave, paid by social security - protected from redundancy within this 6 month period - if made redundant afterwards while still ill after 6 months, obligation for the employer to pay (s…
Re: Getting Back to Work
#199Earlier quoted context omitted.
A source: > A review by Forbes found 24 investigations by California Occupational Safety and Health Administration inspectors from 2014 to 2018, resulting in fines for 54 violations. These include new penalties that haven't yet hit the national online OSHA database, and they nearly double Tesla's fines over the last five years, to $236,730. * https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2019/03/01/tesla-sa...
I don't think this is very damning nor unexpected. A plant with the degree of _change_ that Tesla has on its product line would likely have a very very dynamic production floor - resulting in more violations. It also seems that the OSHA rules were not designed for Tesla's unique processes, so many of those violations, if you actually read them, are not relevant to Tesla and have nothing to do with safety. This proble…
Or Tesla could design their processes in a way that doesn't violate OSHA rules... I don't understand why changing a production floor often would inherently lead to more violations. I could see an organizational bias towards speed and not caring about regulations leading to more violations, however.
Also, why should OSHA redesign it's rules to fit Tesla's "unique" processes?
And to your last point about injuries: 1. Why should a death or serious injury be the indicator? 2. You're wrong about serious injuries, as a cursory search would show:
https://www.revealnews.org/article/tesla-says-its-factory-is...
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/12/tesla-gigafactory-safety-pro...
Re: Getting Back to Work
#200Earlier quoted context omitted.
What they think is about as relevant as opinion polls from a misinformed public. People largely have their mind made up about it about the covid because it's more of a religion now than anything else. Nevermind the numerous serology studies from multiple different countries which show exposure to the virus is highly prevalent with most individuals being asymptomatic. Nevermind the multiple recent studies in the U.S.…
The estimated fatality rate with everything taken into account is around 0.5%. That's covering asymptomatic people, etc, etc. Assuming 200 million Americans get infected the result is 1 million additional deaths. That's a lot.
Among what age group, though? Using an average morbidity across the entire population is misleading. Everything I've read indicates that the morbidity scales very highly with age so that it would be something like (making this up here) 0.05% for people under 40, scaling up very quickly as you get to the elderly population. The question then becomes can we effectively quarantine at-risk groups instead of the entire population? I don't know the answer, but I do know that continuing to pursue current policies until some indefinite point in the future is untenable.