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Think America’s divided now? Try the 1970s

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Re: Think America’s divided now? Try the 1970s

#71

Post by jfengel »

harimau777 wrote: post #51
kiawe_fire wrote: post #31

I can't claim to know how today compares to our past, but what strikes me about today is how close I feel we are in terms of values and ideas, yet how divided we are politically. Without saying my political beliefs, I've had conversations about immigration, taxes, race, and religion with people both on and against my side of the aisle, with people of diverse backgrounds. It's crazy to me how much we agree on and how…

Could some of that be the difference between the principles that people advocate and how they act when the rubber meets the road? That is, it seems to me that most Republicans do not advocate anti-immigrant, racist, etc. opinions. However, when it comes to election day they are willing to vote in people who put those policies in place.

Indeed. I will judge you based on your effect on me. If the people you vote for are openly racist, homophobic, sexist, and paranoid, then as far as I am concerned you are racist, homophobic, sexist, and paranoid, and I will treat you accordingly.

Re: Think America’s divided now? Try the 1970s

#72

Post by aidenn0 »

astine wrote: post #3

There may have been more violence among various radical and extremist factions in American politics in the 70s but that doesn't mean that America was more divided politically over all. There wasn't nearly as much partisanship in the upper-echelons of power in 70s and I suspect that there was more consensus among people in more moderate circles. There also wasn't this huge epistemological divide running right through…

Yes, 538 did a couple of articles about how polarization is no worse than ever, but what is unusual today is how strongly the polarization lines up with political parties.

It is now notable to find some ideological question for which e.g. 80+% of Republicans do not agree on. The Democrats were lagging a bit on this, but are catching up rapidly.

They do note that at least some of this is due to people leaving the parties, but a lot of it is also due to people aligning their beliefs more with the parties.

Look at the bottom graph here[1]. Note that up through 2004 both parties had roughly the same response to the question of immigrants. Then steadily those opposed to immigration within the Democratic party either switched to the Republican party or, aligned their beliefs with the pro-immigration stance.

Similarly for basically my entire life (born in 1980) the country has been split 60/40 on abortion. However, the democratic party used to be just slightly above average for pro-life with the Republican party below average. Now over 80% of Democrats are pro-life, and Republicans have polled in the mid 30s for over a decade now.

1: https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/FT_19...

Re: Think America’s divided now? Try the 1970s

#73

Post by JacksonGariety »

Ididntdothis wrote: post #25

I feel back then people were divided about topics. Now I feel the whole division is propagated by parties and people adjust their view on topics accordingly.

Absolutely this. The news + internet is driving a new form of polarization that's distinctly different from its historical antecedents.

Re: Think America’s divided now? Try the 1970s

#74

Post by acdha »

aidenn0 wrote: post #72
astine wrote: post #3

There may have been more violence among various radical and extremist factions in American politics in the 70s but that doesn't mean that America was more divided politically over all. There wasn't nearly as much partisanship in the upper-echelons of power in 70s and I suspect that there was more consensus among people in more moderate circles. There also wasn't this huge epistemological divide running right through…

Yes, 538 did a couple of articles about how polarization is no worse than ever, but what is unusual today is how strongly the polarization lines up with political parties. It is now notable to find some ideological question for which e.g. 80+% of Republicans do not agree on. The Democrats were lagging a bit on this, but are catching up rapidly. They do note that at least some of this is due to people leaving the part…

I think two other factors to consider are the rise of partisan media after the repeal of the Fairness doctrine and suburbanization, both making it easier for people to spend time mostly hearing voices they agree with.

One thing I find interesting about older novels is that it seems to be more common than now to know people that you disagreed with, perhaps strongly, but still respected. One factor in this is probably religion: church attendance has been dropping for a long time so there’s less social attendance and some of the most popular denominations became very politically active in the late 1970s so they rapidly became less diverse.

Re: Think America’s divided now? Try the 1970s

#75

Post by non-entity »

bluGill wrote: post #61
ojnabieoot wrote: post #17

This is an extremely dumb article. a) Today intense partisan divisiveness and animosity is felt by the overwhelming majority of the US electorate, not just among extremist groups with no formal political representation. Even taking the author's premise that the 70s had more bloodshed for granted, left-right animosity was comparatively low in conventional politics. A crucial factor of this was that the "realignment of…

Extremism is on both wings. My Facebook feed is evidence, frinds who have nothing in common except they both know me are separetly posting their exaggerated anti trump left wing Memes. Same for the right wing except they are exaggerated of the pro trump memes

I don't see how people posting memes of a in support of or in attempt to make fun of largely controversial president equals extremism.

Re: Think America’s divided now? Try the 1970s

#76

Post by thisiszilff »

sigwinch28 wrote: post #36

I don't get this article: it feels to me like a member of the older generation saying "I had to walk fifteen miles to school in the snow! Barefoot! Uphill! Both ways!". To me it's a bit like whataboutmanship: "you think it's bad now? what about the 1970s, eh?". Just because things were bad back then doesn't mean they're not _also bad_ now. Just because things are better it doesn't mean we shouldn't try to improve.

My reading of the article was that it sought to point out that how "bad" it is today isn't unusual or an anomaly. Today's divisions are more par for course in America than a new development. That perspective is relevant when we try to improve the current situation.

Re: Think America’s divided now? Try the 1970s

#79

Post by aidenn0 »

acdha wrote: post #74
aidenn0 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, 538 did a couple of articles about how polarization is no worse than ever, but what is unusual today is how strongly the polarization lines up with political parties. It is now notable to find some ideological question for which e.g. 80+% of Republicans do not agree on. The Democrats were lagging a bit on this, but are catching up rapidly. They do note that at least some of this is due to people leaving the part…

I think two other factors to consider are the rise of partisan media after the repeal of the Fairness doctrine and suburbanization, both making it easier for people to spend time mostly hearing voices they agree with. One thing I find interesting about older novels is that it seems to be more common than now to know people that you disagreed with, perhaps strongly, but still respected. One factor in this is probably…

I think suburbanization has had a much larger impact than partisan media. Most Americans consume centrist media[1], but there are very few places now where there isn't a large majority of either left or right[2]. With the current political atmosphere, even if 15% of the population is the opposite of the majority, they probably aren't going to feel very comfortable being vocal about it.

You're probably on to something with religion. I'm Roman Catholic, and I remember a lot of Democrats being around at the church where I grew up, and obviously the Catholic church is a fairly conservative organization, and both of my parents are staunch Republicans (The 2 times they didn't vote republican in a national election were when my dad voted for Perot in '92 and my mom voted for Clinton in '16 (but straight republican down-ballot in both cases)).

1: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/media-bubbles-arent-the...

2: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/purple-america-has-all-...

Re: Think America’s divided now? Try the 1970s

#80

Post by jon889 »

aidenn0 wrote: post #72
astine wrote: post #3

There may have been more violence among various radical and extremist factions in American politics in the 70s but that doesn't mean that America was more divided politically over all. There wasn't nearly as much partisanship in the upper-echelons of power in 70s and I suspect that there was more consensus among people in more moderate circles. There also wasn't this huge epistemological divide running right through…

Yes, 538 did a couple of articles about how polarization is no worse than ever, but what is unusual today is how strongly the polarization lines up with political parties. It is now notable to find some ideological question for which e.g. 80+% of Republicans do not agree on. The Democrats were lagging a bit on this, but are catching up rapidly. They do note that at least some of this is due to people leaving the part…

Do you mean 80% of democrats are pro-choice?
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