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Think America’s divided now? Try the 1970s

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Re: Think America’s divided now? Try the 1970s

#31

Post by kiawe_fire »

I can't claim to know how today compares to our past, but what strikes me about today is how close I feel we are in terms of values and ideas, yet how divided we are politically.

Without saying my political beliefs, I've had conversations about immigration, taxes, race, and religion with people both on and against my side of the aisle, with people of diverse backgrounds.

It's crazy to me how much we agree on and how minor our differences are, and how even those differences are seen through the lens of different means to a similar, just end.

Right up until the point that you start discussing political party or even specific politicians.

Then, it gets personal. Then, the very moral fiber of your being is up for questioning, commonality in goals or values be damned.

Re: Think America’s divided now? Try the 1970s

#32

Post by matwood »

Animats wrote: post #21
beervirus wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now the divide is around the basics of the scientific method. People think that vaccines have killed more people than they help. They think that hydrochloroquine is a wunderdrug and Bill Gates is suppressing its use so he can make more money. I see disagreements that are not arguable on any merit. The number of people who believe stuff like this is vanishingly small. They're just vocal in their ignorance.

The number of people who believe stuff like this is vanishingly small. Unfortunately, it's not.[1] [1] https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2020-05-0...

I hadn't seen that, thanks for depressing me even more on a Friday. Looking at the downvotes to my post, some of those 25% are also on HN.

Re: Think America’s divided now? Try the 1970s

#33

Post by kube-system »

sandworm101 wrote: post #20
astine wrote: post #3

There may have been more violence among various radical and extremist factions in American politics in the 70s but that doesn't mean that America was more divided politically over all. There wasn't nearly as much partisanship in the upper-echelons of power in 70s and I suspect that there was more consensus among people in more moderate circles. There also wasn't this huge epistemological divide running right through…

The political class may have been unified, but perhaps because so many people didn't participate in politics. Many religious people stayed away or at least did not vote along religious lines, and other large segments were disenfranchised altogether. So the separations may have existed but simply did not play out in the political arena because politics was in the hands of a homogeneous group.

Most people simply weren't exposed to a very wide spectrum of beliefs. Mass media focused on hard news, and it was either local and/or controlled by a few groups.

The wider diversity of media that came later allowed more opportunity for people to 1) find a viewpoint they more closely identify with, and 2) become outraged about viewpoints vastly different than their own.

Re: Think America’s divided now? Try the 1970s

#34

Post by romwell »

js2 wrote: post #29
saas_sam wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bold claims. Do you have any references that support any of them? Inquiring minds want to know.

[deleted]

Doesn't quite cut it, does it? "Go read some history books" is not a reference.

The parent comment made a bunch of statements. Asking the reader to read an entire book to verify the validity of any of them is wrong.

References come with page numbers for a reason.

Re: Think America’s divided now? Try the 1970s

#35

Post by benrbray »

beervirus wrote: post #11
matwood wrote: post #5

I maybe wrong in thinking about this way, but in the 1970s people were debating over topics that were debatable. Vietnam for example, an argument can be made it was the right move to get involved. And, an argument can be made it was a mistake. Same with socialism vs. capitalism and a myriad of other large, complex topics. Now the divide is around the basics of the scientific method. People think that vaccines have ki…

> Now the divide is around the basics of the scientific method. People think that vaccines have killed more people than they help. They think that hydrochloroquine is a wunderdrug and Bill Gates is suppressing its use so he can make more money. I see disagreements that are not arguable on any merit. The number of people who believe stuff like this is vanishingly small. They're just vocal in their ignorance.

They're vocal because social media encourages them to be. They tweet out their crazy views and by dinnertime it's all over CNN and millions of people are suddenly listening to them.

Re: Think America’s divided now? Try the 1970s

#36

Post by sigwinch28 »

I don't get this article: it feels to me like a member of the older generation saying "I had to walk fifteen miles to school in the snow! Barefoot! Uphill! Both ways!".

To me it's a bit like whataboutmanship: "you think it's bad now? what about the 1970s, eh?".

Just because things were bad back then doesn't mean they're not _also bad_ now. Just because things are better it doesn't mean we shouldn't try to improve.

Re: Think America’s divided now? Try the 1970s

#37

Post by parsimo2010 »

Think America was divided in the 1970s? Try the 1860s.

And if you somehow think that the US Civil War doesn't count because it was soldiers fighting, remember that one of the precursors to the war occurred in Kansas. In the 1850s, civilians from both sides invaded and fought to kick the other side out so they could rig Kansas' vote on slavery. It was violence between civilians and obvious attempts to manipulate a democratic vote by both sides.

I'm not saying that the division now or in the 1970s is acceptable, but America's history (and that of many other "civilized" countries) is bathed in blood. Politicians win elections by having a "better" stance on the issues compared to their opponent. If they can make an issue divisive and considered a deal-breaker then they can keep supporters on their side, even if they are screwing their constituents on many smaller issues. This is why abortion is equated with premeditated murder on one side and complete forfeiture of a woman's autonomy on the other. This is why gun control is equated with supporting mass shootings on one side and the complete abandonment of freedom and the US Constitution on the other.

We should strive to be better, but realize that this isn't the worst it's ever been. It does seem like in the past couple decades, the increasing flood of information has made many aware of the divisions. Previously you could have lived you life in your community where most of the people think like you.

Re: Think America’s divided now? Try the 1970s

#39

Post by [deleted] »

romwell wrote: post #34
js2 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

Doesn't quite cut it, does it? "Go read some history books" is not a reference. The parent comment made a bunch of statements. Asking the reader to read an entire book to verify the validity of any of them is wrong. References come with page numbers for a reason.

[deleted]

Re: Think America’s divided now? Try the 1970s

#40

Post by daenz »

neonate wrote: post #28
daenz wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But it would still be absolutely appalling if slavery were to come back today. I've got news for you: undocumented labor makes up 9% of California's labor force [0]. Undocumented workers don't have the same exact conditions as slaves, but I'll leave the research to you as to why their position is one of extraordinary vulnerability and abuse at the hands of employers. People proudly tout California as the USA's large…

Vulnerable to abuse as those workers are, that situation is not close to what was done to the slaves. You do undocumented workers a disservice by advocating their cause with so exaggerated a claim. I suggest reading https://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/in-depth/news/2019/06/0... . It's hard to find the stomach even to read about. That was a whole different level of violence and brutality, and it doesn't minimize anyb…

It's interesting that you find the the technicalities of my comparison more concerning than the actual modern day slavery taking place right under our noses. Rather than speak out for current victims being exploited right now, you are choosing to say "well it's not as bad as X". Take a step back and see how that is harmful.
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