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Think America’s divided now? Try the 1970s

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Re: Think America’s divided now? Try the 1970s

#21

Post by Animats »

beervirus wrote: post #11
matwood wrote: post #5

I maybe wrong in thinking about this way, but in the 1970s people were debating over topics that were debatable. Vietnam for example, an argument can be made it was the right move to get involved. And, an argument can be made it was a mistake. Same with socialism vs. capitalism and a myriad of other large, complex topics. Now the divide is around the basics of the scientific method. People think that vaccines have ki…

> Now the divide is around the basics of the scientific method. People think that vaccines have killed more people than they help. They think that hydrochloroquine is a wunderdrug and Bill Gates is suppressing its use so he can make more money. I see disagreements that are not arguable on any merit. The number of people who believe stuff like this is vanishingly small. They're just vocal in their ignorance.

The number of people who believe stuff like this is vanishingly small.

Unfortunately, it's not.[1]

[1] https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2020-05-0...

Re: Think America’s divided now? Try the 1970s

#22

Post by curtis3389 »

beervirus wrote: post #11
matwood wrote: post #5

I maybe wrong in thinking about this way, but in the 1970s people were debating over topics that were debatable. Vietnam for example, an argument can be made it was the right move to get involved. And, an argument can be made it was a mistake. Same with socialism vs. capitalism and a myriad of other large, complex topics. Now the divide is around the basics of the scientific method. People think that vaccines have ki…

> Now the divide is around the basics of the scientific method. People think that vaccines have killed more people than they help. They think that hydrochloroquine is a wunderdrug and Bill Gates is suppressing its use so he can make more money. I see disagreements that are not arguable on any merit. The number of people who believe stuff like this is vanishingly small. They're just vocal in their ignorance.

I'd like to believe that. Is there any evidence to support the assertion that number of Americans that believe provable falsehoods is "vanishingly small"?

Re: Think America’s divided now? Try the 1970s

#23

Post by Wohlf »

astine wrote: post #3

There may have been more violence among various radical and extremist factions in American politics in the 70s but that doesn't mean that America was more divided politically over all. There wasn't nearly as much partisanship in the upper-echelons of power in 70s and I suspect that there was more consensus among people in more moderate circles. There also wasn't this huge epistemological divide running right through…

The war in Vietnam was not exactly unifying, especially not with the working class whose sons were being drafted.

Also, "more violence" is an understatement. Race riots in many major cities creating white flight, and thousands of domestic bombings a year.

Re: Think America’s divided now? Try the 1970s

#24

Post by Der_Einzige »

claudeganon wrote: post #15

Violent, fringe, left-wing movements are of little importance because they have no corollary representation in electoral politics and are largely defunct. They’re likewise so far outside the neoliberal consensus of the Democratic Party that they have little hope of finding their way in. The same, unfortunately, cannot be said for the right, which has a great deal of transit between milita groups, white supremacists,…

[flagged]

Re: Think America’s divided now? Try the 1970s

#26

Post by saas_sam »

astine wrote: post #3

There may have been more violence among various radical and extremist factions in American politics in the 70s but that doesn't mean that America was more divided politically over all. There wasn't nearly as much partisanship in the upper-echelons of power in 70s and I suspect that there was more consensus among people in more moderate circles. There also wasn't this huge epistemological divide running right through…

Bold claims. Do you have any references that support any of them? Inquiring minds want to know.

Re: Think America’s divided now? Try the 1970s

#27

Post by steve76 »

A bag of animals killing and eating each other is united.

I wouldn't say it is good.

Perhaps the violence back then was a lot more wanton. They just wanted to blow people up regardless of why.

Now they found a way to worm themselves in power and justify their past crimes to their children.

Today we live in a very violent world. It's everywhere. Work each other to death, push and provoke, without any thought of what we're doing to one another.

Re: Think America’s divided now? Try the 1970s

#28

Post by neonate »

daenz wrote: post #16
tensor wrote: post #4

This article really misses the point. Sure, there may be times in the long past where there was a lot of divide. America once had legal slavery too. But it would still be absolutely appalling if slavery were to come back today. The article almost gives off the impression that "oh it happened before so it's ok and normal". No, it's not ok and normal. It wasn't ok back then and it's not ok now.

>But it would still be absolutely appalling if slavery were to come back today. I've got news for you: undocumented labor makes up 9% of California's labor force [0]. Undocumented workers don't have the same exact conditions as slaves, but I'll leave the research to you as to why their position is one of extraordinary vulnerability and abuse at the hands of employers. People proudly tout California as the USA's large…

Vulnerable to abuse as those workers are, that situation is not close to what was done to the slaves. You do undocumented workers a disservice by advocating their cause with so exaggerated a claim. I suggest reading https://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/in-depth/news/2019/06/0.... It's hard to find the stomach even to read about. That was a whole different level of violence and brutality, and it doesn't minimize anybody's plight now to say so.

Re: Think America’s divided now? Try the 1970s

#29

Post by js2 »

saas_sam wrote: post #26
astine wrote: post #3

There may have been more violence among various radical and extremist factions in American politics in the 70s but that doesn't mean that America was more divided politically over all. There wasn't nearly as much partisanship in the upper-echelons of power in 70s and I suspect that there was more consensus among people in more moderate circles. There also wasn't this huge epistemological divide running right through…

Bold claims. Do you have any references that support any of them? Inquiring minds want to know.

[deleted]

Re: Think America’s divided now? Try the 1970s

#30

Post by forgotmylogin2 »

jhwang5 wrote: post #9

.

Haves and have notes is a divide that has existed for nearly the entirety of human history. It's not usually what people are referring to when they talk about the extent of the American divide currently. It's really more in reference to the fact that republicans and democrats rarely cross the aisle to support something that the other side is supporting. In this sense, the American divide has gotten wider because it's much rarer to find a republican and democrat willing to agree on something than it was in the past.

Here's a pretty interesting visualization that better explains the idea: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure?id=10.1371/...

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