Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

We Chat, They Watch

citizenlab.ca

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 555 posts

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#221

Post by Thowaway1841005 »

Why don’t democratic countries keep WeChat off the App stores or completely block its network?

A company proposing a means of communication that would subtly or not so subtly twist the communications towards authoritarianism should not stand. Why would Some Country let Tencent silently block targeted messages between two of its citizens?

Blocking WeChat altogether of course warrants discussion because some people need to contact family and friends in China. But the discussion should happen if more and more non-Chinese start using WhatsApp, if anything to protect non-Chinese citizens from trouble the next time they visit China.

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#222

Post by cmdshiftf4 »

arcticbull wrote: post #188
cmdshiftf4 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Won't you feel good you are helping squash bigots by giving your PII away That doesn't enter the equation for what I would imagine is 99.99% of users. It's the erosion of privacy in the name of a) "Safety" and b) convenience The average person of the world has shown that they will trade virtually anything for the perception of convenience, or "safety". Look at the most recent gun ban in Canada for an obvious example…

Yes, the ban may not be perfect, but as a Canadian, I can say unequivocally: I don't need perfect to be the enemy of good. There's no reason to possess these weapons any more than there's a reason to possess nuclear warheads. The next bill can ban more, fix the bugs, etc, but the flag has been planted: there's no room for those weapons in Canada. A huge number of people have wanted to ban weapons like these since Eco…

PAL/RPAL holders, or weapons stolen from them, account for virtually no gun crimes in Canada. Essentially all are carried out with illegal weapons smuggled in from the US.

Therefore, the ban is ineffective in serving its mandate, punishes law abiding, statistically harmless individuals needlessly and saddles the taxpayer, of which only 60% of households in Canada are, with yet more debt for nothing.

It has also set a very dangerous precedent in Canada as to how "unpopular" rights, not explicitly in the Charter, can be stripped by the pen stroke of a populist.

But HN, and this topic in particular, is not the place for this discussion. Good luck to you when the political pendulum swings.

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#223

Post by briga »

intro-b wrote: post #65
briga wrote: post #48

Are there articles in China talking about how Google and Facebook spy on the content that all users send each other, including Chinese?

Considering how banned Google and Facebook products are in China, I'm not sure what you're getting at with this comment.

Not all Chinese people live in China. My comment might have made more sense before the post title changed.

Just pointing out that American companies engage in similar sorts of surveillance and censorship that Chinese companies do, although admittedly the CCP is more heavy-handed and paternalistic in its approach.

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#224

Post by throwawayosiu1 »

arcticbull wrote: post #188
cmdshiftf4 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Won't you feel good you are helping squash bigots by giving your PII away That doesn't enter the equation for what I would imagine is 99.99% of users. It's the erosion of privacy in the name of a) "Safety" and b) convenience The average person of the world has shown that they will trade virtually anything for the perception of convenience, or "safety". Look at the most recent gun ban in Canada for an obvious example…

Yes, the ban may not be perfect, but as a Canadian, I can say unequivocally: I don't need perfect to be the enemy of good. There's no reason to possess these weapons any more than there's a reason to possess nuclear warheads. The next bill can ban more, fix the bugs, etc, but the flag has been planted: there's no room for those weapons in Canada. A huge number of people have wanted to ban weapons like these since Eco…

I’m a Canadian and I find that absolutely the opposite.

1. > I don't need perfect to be the enemy of good. There's no reason to possess these weapons any more than there's a reason to possess nuclear warheads

Slipper slope don’t you say? Quite a lot of guns on that list were not even available in Canada or would be available. Furthermore, we have some of the strictest gun laws around.

What you said above to me sounds like we also need to just ban McDonalds and others from Canada too - considering obesity kills more Canadians than gun deaths no?

2. > The next bill can ban more, fix the bugs, etc, but the flag has been planted: there's no room for those weapons in Canada.

Have you by chance gone throw the process of getting a PAL? Our issue is not responsible gun owners - it’s the access to illegal guns coming from south of the border and this bill did absolutely nothing to stop it. It was political theater at the end of which a minority of citizens were affected (and they probably didn’t even vote in for the Libs anyways)

> it also makes them horrifying enough that we're not going to sit back and pray the crime away

By not dealing with the influx of guns from the south - we are literally doing JUST that further more at the cost of law abiding gun owners too.

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#225

Post by Aperocky »

sacks2k wrote: post #83

It's not just WeChat. They own stakes in many american media companies and movie production houses. They use this influence to also change our Media and push pro-Chinese propaganda to the American public.

Can you show an example of blatant Chinese propaganda from those production houses? One that are clearly separated from opinion?

Or are we using propaganda and opinions interchangeably here

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#226

Post by eanzenberg »

devtul wrote: post #158
fiblye wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outside of China, we're pretty lucky that we can just register for random sites like HN with nothing more than a username and password and start talking. Every Chinese site I've ever used requires phone number or ID verification. Most of them only allow Chinese-registered phones, meaning it's absolutely impossible to communicate with Chinese people from the outside world, aside from a very small number of carefully v…

We will give our freedoms away in name of preventing toxicity and hate speech. Won't you feel good you are helping squash bigots by giving your PII away

No we won’t, and you can thank the true patriots who continue to defend your rights.

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#227

Post by rhizome »

fiblye wrote: post #121
yingliu4203 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many Chinese-Americans have no choice when they need to communicate with family and friend living in China. No outside communication tools allowed in China.

Outside of China, we're pretty lucky that we can just register for random sites like HN with nothing more than a username and password and start talking. Every Chinese site I've ever used requires phone number or ID verification. Most of them only allow Chinese-registered phones, meaning it's absolutely impossible to communicate with Chinese people from the outside world, aside from a very small number of carefully v…

>Every Chinese site I've ever used requires phone number or ID verification

Frankly, this happens a lot in the West these days, too. Take OKCupid, for instance. And the third-party doctrine.

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#228

Post by shard972 »

Aperocky wrote: post #225
sacks2k wrote: post #83

It's not just WeChat. They own stakes in many american media companies and movie production houses. They use this influence to also change our Media and push pro-Chinese propaganda to the American public.

Can you show an example of blatant Chinese propaganda from those production houses? One that are clearly separated from opinion? Or are we using propaganda and opinions interchangeably here

New top gun movie?

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#229

Post by Aperocky »

Thowaway1841005 wrote: post #221

Why don’t democratic countries keep WeChat off the App stores or completely block its network? A company proposing a means of communication that would subtly or not so subtly twist the communications towards authoritarianism should not stand. Why would Some Country let Tencent silently block targeted messages between two of its citizens? Blocking WeChat altogether of course warrants discussion because some people nee…

So the solution to the problem is to be more like the problem?

Also if you actually read you’ll find that your point in the second paragraph not true. The filtering only happens with China based accounts whereas surveillance are reportedly global.

Re: We Chat, They Watch

#230

Post by drukenemo »

sacks2k wrote: post #83

It's not just WeChat. They own stakes in many american media companies and movie production houses. They use this influence to also change our Media and push pro-Chinese propaganda to the American public.

I’ve been suspecting this for a long time but came across few evidence for it. I’ve seen Chinese funding of Hollywood movies, but it’s always through an American fund, etc. What kind of evidence have you found? To me, the fact that Hollywood would never attack communism, is a big one. Thousands of movies about nazism, zero about the Soviet union and their crimes. Even Cuba is very underrepresented in the industry. Yet differently from a regime that lasted two decades, we are talking about one that persists very well until today.
Post reply on HN