Zoom Acquires Keybase • Hacker News Board

Re: Zoom Acquires Keybase

#471

Post by rakoo » Thu, May 07, 2020, 6:48 PM UTC

Legogris wrote: post #392

Arathorn wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're working on making bridges better integrated in Matrix to help with this use case - it's certainly a good way to drive uptake. On the other hand, bridges are always an impedance mismatch - you have to keep up with new features on both side of the bridge, and the system you're bridging into doesn't always want to be bridged. So, we think bridges are a key thing for Matrix (it's where the name comes from - matrixi…

On feature-mismatch, I don't think it has to be that big of a deal - as long as * delivering messages and file/image attachments work reliably in both directions * stickers and other native attachments (location, audio clips, etc) can be received, not necessarily sent , that's absolutely Good Enough for daily use for me and I imagine many others. Reactions and sending of stickers etc optional, but if that's there, th…

> This should be the crucial and challenging part to maintain.

More than that, some of the system explicitely _don't_ want to be bridged, because retaining users in their silos brings in more money than maintaining a window to the world outside the silo. It's tolerated at best today, but you can be sure that if a bridge ever get traction, the Whatsapps/Facebooks/Wechats will do what they can to block you.

Rather than betting on the bridges in the long term, I believe it's in your interest (as a Matrix user) to host a bridge to Whatsapp, and tell your Whatsapp friends that it kinda works but it's gonna fail at some point, so they better have a second account for the future. Install the account for them even, that removes some of the friction. But ultimately you have to realize that Whatsapp doesn't want to talk to Matrix (the situation is completely different for an open protocol of course, like IRC or XMPP)

Re: Zoom Acquires Keybase

#472

Post by yellowapple » Thu, May 07, 2020, 6:48 PM UTC

wutwutwutwut wrote: post #428

gonehome wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks - I edited it to soften the language a bit.

Is it called "soften the language" to fix a 100% factual error? Honestly I feel that if you're arguing in one direction or another and haven't checked the facts, maybe it's better not to argue about it?

If the original claim was "100% of the dev team is in China", and the reality is "only 80% of the dev team is in China", then that'd be a 20% factual error, mathematically speaking.

Re: Zoom Acquires Keybase

#473

Post by throwaway888abc » Thu, May 07, 2020, 6:51 PM UTC

hinkley wrote: post #438

hosh wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have letsencrypt and permanent.org as non-profits. An idea of a identity and key non-profit sounds like another critical piece we would need for a free, open web

Is this functionality something that would make sense for LetsEncrypt to implement?

They have already massive infra in place. And are non-profit. Sort of 'natural' expansion. I would love to see it.

Re: Zoom Acquires Keybase

#474

Post by uoaei » Thu, May 07, 2020, 6:56 PM UTC

gonehome wrote: post #369

bgee wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> communication company that has its entire dev team in China citation needed Also, what are you trying to imply by this assertion?

"Zoom is based in California’s Silicon Valley, but it owns three companies in China that develop its software. The Citizen Lab said the structure allowed the company to lower its development costs, but added “this arrangement may make Zoom responsive to pressure from Chinese authorities.”" https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/apr/24/uk-governmen... The implication is that China is hostile and leverages their powe…

[flagged]

Re: Zoom Acquires Keybase

#475

Post by anticensor » Thu, May 07, 2020, 6:57 PM UTC

SAI_Peregrinus wrote: post #416

JshWright wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how important the word "live" is there. Does this statement only apply to real-time decryption of ongoing meetings?

And how long of a delay counts as no longer "live"? After the meeting ends? Five seconds? A millisecond? Does the latency to the server mean it's not "live", since it happened in the past?

One full meeting duration after the meeting ends.

Re: Zoom Acquires Keybase

#476

Post by jokoon » Thu, May 07, 2020, 6:59 PM UTC

There were local, volunteering missions to help healthcare workers, the homeless, etc all done by some "non-profit" in europe. Those missions had state-sponsored ads, and I volunteered online.

As soon as they required me to use zoom, I told them I would not use zoom. I just go on their whatsapp thing, so of course I get less info, etc.

I really fail to understand how Zoom became so popular, and I was recently wondering the same thing about TikTok, which by the way, was just a clone of Vine.

Essentially, with apps like that, advertising and adoption is critical, the tech doesn't really matter that much. I would really be interested in understanding what are the strategies in place to make people use those things. Of course the virus played a huge role, but I'm certain there are specialists about how to gain users rapidly.

Re: Zoom Acquires Keybase

#477

Post by Arathorn » Thu, May 07, 2020, 7:01 PM UTC

gnufx wrote: post #433

RMPR wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was about to complain about your desktop Electron app but it seems that spectral[0] is already usable without any hassle (build from source, ...) at least on Fedora, time to reactivate my Matrix account, keep up with the great work 0: https://gitlab.com/spectral-im/spectral

But unfortunately these alternatives don't have the same encryption support, do they? (Some seem not to have any.)

https://blog.riot.im/e2e-encryption-by-default-cross-signing... has a list of E2E-capable clients. For instance, Mirage, mentioned as an alternative here, has full E2EE support (but no cross-signing yet, given it's brand new).

Re: Zoom Acquires Keybase

#478

Post by adadahdjej » Thu, May 07, 2020, 7:03 PM UTC

I am truly disappointed. But I should have known better. Big woop. Keybase and Zoom deserve each other.

Re: Zoom Acquires Keybase

#479

Post by freshhawk » Thu, May 07, 2020, 7:04 PM UTC

mikorym wrote: post #436

gonehome wrote: post #349

For years people have been begging Keybase to allow them to pay them for the service and Chris Coyne always refused. Now they've lost their independence and they're owned by a communication company that has [edit: the majority of] its dev team in China. I use Keybase to talk to my friend in China since it's one of the few services they don't block. This is a pretty disappointing outcome.

It is funny that Zoom was one of the companies that I flagged in my head as the worst (or rather, most dangerous) up-and-coming tech company and I considered Keybase one of the most promising up-and-coming tech companies. Keybase solves a (to me) nontrivial problem: How to bring private keys into social media. Just a silly example: You don't use the same private-public key exchange in Whatsapp as you would use for yo…

Yes, this was exactly how I mentally categorized these two companies as well.

My first reaction was: it can't be that keybase can it? Huh, well maybe I'd sell my principles for that much money too, oh well.

Maybe some keybase employee will end up being a whistleblower sometime soon though.

Re: Zoom Acquires Keybase

#480

Post by andrewaylett » Thu, May 07, 2020, 7:05 PM UTC

core-questions wrote: post #270

dcow wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t necessarily read it that way. Keybase is 100% functional and has worked well for a long time. Zoom needs people who know how to make modern client software and chat if they want to compete with the Slacks and Teams, etc. You can’t even screen share on wayland... it’s that bad. If keybase ultimately gets secure video, and zoom a security architecture overhaul, how is that a bad thing?

Who gives a fuck about Wayland, honestly? It seems like it was designed by people who didn't like the few good things about X and wanted something to further fracture the Linux desktop. Well, they got it. > Zoom needs people who know how to make modern client software It's the best video client available on Windows / Mac and works acceptably on Linux, what exactly needs to be more "modern" about it? Slack's video cal…

> people who didn't like the few good things about X

Since these were also pretty much the only people who were putting effort into maintaining X, I think it's reasonable that they decided to replace it instead.

The history of X is a history of forks. But we've not seen another X fork appear to compete against Wayland. Instead we see the people who are writing Wayland continuing to retrofit the new technologies they're able to bring back, back to X.