The AMD Ryzen 3 3300X and 3100 CPU Review: A Budget Gaming Bonanza • Hacker News Board

Re: The AMD Ryzen 3 3300X and 3100 CPU Review: A Budget Gaming Bonanza

#51

Post by derefr » Thu, May 07, 2020, 5:02 PM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #6

So I was recently looking at those as options for a very low budget video editing PC for someone, and yes, AMD destroys intel in raw CPU performance for the same price, however in those low-budget applications Intel has an upper hand - integrated GPU. With AMD you either have to go with the super crappy 3400G, which is a really poor CPU(but also very cheap), or for literally anything else + a dedicated GPU(which incr…

I would presume that, if you have a low-budget application with high scale (e.g. you're a company designing a NAS, or other "Turing-complete but still embedded" system), then you'd ignore both Intel and AMD and look at ARM-based SoC solutions, no? You can get significantly better integrated graphics, for cheaper, on e.g. Nvidia's Tegra platform. Thus why Nintendo—ROI penny-pinchers to a fault—chose it.

Re: The AMD Ryzen 3 3300X and 3100 CPU Review: A Budget Gaming Bonanza

#52

Post by derefr » Thu, May 07, 2020, 5:06 PM UTC

SomeoneFromCA wrote: post #27

Exmoor wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is why you mostly see these cheap articles called out as being ideal for gaming rigs where you're highly likely to be adding a dedicated GPU anyway. Even a low end card like a $120 RX 570 is going to be 600+% faster than the built in Intel GPU: https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-UHD-Graphics-630... Even for video editing the math might change a bit since modern video editing apps can leverage GP…

$120 is sensitive amount of money for someone who wants to use a machine only for development. I am wondering why AMD would manufacture ultra low end potato cards which would cost like $35, only for office use. That would boost the sales big time.

You could just buy older-gen AMD cards? They still work. Like Apple with their hardware, AMD sees no reason to produce new "value" SKUs, when you can just buy their 1–3-gen-old flagship cards for "value" prices.

Re: The AMD Ryzen 3 3300X and 3100 CPU Review: A Budget Gaming Bonanza

#53

Post by derefr » Thu, May 07, 2020, 5:08 PM UTC

pedrocr wrote: post #39

gambiting wrote: post #6

So I was recently looking at those as options for a very low budget video editing PC for someone, and yes, AMD destroys intel in raw CPU performance for the same price, however in those low-budget applications Intel has an upper hand - integrated GPU. With AMD you either have to go with the super crappy 3400G, which is a really poor CPU(but also very cheap), or for literally anything else + a dedicated GPU(which incr…

This is really annoying when building a NAS too. Great value CPUs with ECC support make the configurations great and then you need to spend 50-100€ to just get boot graphics even though the machine will be headless 99% of the time. Buying something second hand or from aliexpress defeats the purpose of trying to build something reliable. The market for low-end discrete GPUs has all but vanished thanks to Intel integra…

> and then you need to spend 50-100€ to just get boot graphics even though the machine will be headless 99% of the time.

Buy a serial-over-USB patch cable; connect it from the NAS to your laptop; open an STTY emulator on the laptop. No boot graphics needed.

Re: The AMD Ryzen 3 3300X and 3100 CPU Review: A Budget Gaming Bonanza

#54

Post by arvinsim » Thu, May 07, 2020, 5:09 PM UTC

pedrocr wrote: post #39

gambiting wrote: post #6

So I was recently looking at those as options for a very low budget video editing PC for someone, and yes, AMD destroys intel in raw CPU performance for the same price, however in those low-budget applications Intel has an upper hand - integrated GPU. With AMD you either have to go with the super crappy 3400G, which is a really poor CPU(but also very cheap), or for literally anything else + a dedicated GPU(which incr…

This is really annoying when building a NAS too. Great value CPUs with ECC support make the configurations great and then you need to spend 50-100€ to just get boot graphics even though the machine will be headless 99% of the time. Buying something second hand or from aliexpress defeats the purpose of trying to build something reliable. The market for low-end discrete GPUs has all but vanished thanks to Intel integra…

A comment above refers to the GT 710 as a cheap option new.

Re: The AMD Ryzen 3 3300X and 3100 CPU Review: A Budget Gaming Bonanza

#55

Post by gambiting » Thu, May 07, 2020, 5:10 PM UTC

morsch wrote: post #34

SomeoneFromCA wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$120 is sensitive amount of money for someone who wants to use a machine only for development. I am wondering why AMD would manufacture ultra low end potato cards which would cost like $35, only for office use. That would boost the sales big time.

PCI Express cards based on NVIDIA GeForce GT 710 are available new for <40 EUR. Presumably there's a large clearance and used market with much lower prices. None of that is an option?

But that was kind of my point - Ryzen 5 3600 I can currently find for £180, while an i5 9400 is £198. If I now have to get a £30-40 dedicated GPU for the first one, Ryzen ends up being more expensive(not to mention that a super basic GPU like the GT710 does actually struggle driving a 4K screen, while the Intel 630 does not, but that's a minor point)

Re: The AMD Ryzen 3 3300X and 3100 CPU Review: A Budget Gaming Bonanza

#56

Post by all_blue_chucks » Thu, May 07, 2020, 5:11 PM UTC

greendave wrote: post #38

I like Anandtech. They have some really great deep dive articles on CPUs and system architecture. Which is why this type of 'test' is just weird. None of the CPUs they compare seem to be in the same price bracket. Many aren't even from the same generation. 7700K? 8086K? 4900HS? Yes, sometimes you have to work with what you have, but c'mon - at least one somewhat comparable CPU would've been nice for reference (i3 810…

They are comparing it against previous gen gaming CPUs to help people trying to decide if it is worth upgrading.

Re: The AMD Ryzen 3 3300X and 3100 CPU Review: A Budget Gaming Bonanza

#57

Post by jdsully » Thu, May 07, 2020, 5:12 PM UTC

hansvm wrote: post #41

jdsully wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a Ryzen 3900X, and also an i5 for software development. With unoptimized code the Ryzen is pretty close to the i5. But when you start to really optimize it becomes obvious the i5 has more execution resources and is faster single threaded.

I haven't looked at their newer offerings, but in years past that was definitely a problem that afflicted AMD -- having a fraction of the floating point execution units per core, creating AVX by adding an emulation layer over the existing SSE registers, etc. For a lot of use cases AMD could still be faster according to a wall clock (they weren't worse across the board -- those failings were used to purchase advantage…

That part is fixed. They even eliminated most of the downclocking issues with the AVX units on Intel. AMD has been pretty tactical with Zen2.

The issues I’m talking about are execution resources for scalar code. Things like how many ALUs and which execution ports are able to execute which instructions.

Re: The AMD Ryzen 3 3300X and 3100 CPU Review: A Budget Gaming Bonanza

#58

Post by tornato7 » Thu, May 07, 2020, 5:12 PM UTC

blattimwind wrote: post #29

Exmoor wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is why you mostly see these cheap articles called out as being ideal for gaming rigs where you're highly likely to be adding a dedicated GPU anyway. Even a low end card like a $120 RX 570 is going to be 600+% faster than the built in Intel GPU: https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-UHD-Graphics-630... Even for video editing the math might change a bit since modern video editing apps can leverage GP…

For modern video editors (aka "not Adobe") the CPU barely matters at all. I suspect "content creation needs strong CPU" is held up largely by Adobe, while more modern systems ditched CPUs for heavy lifting a long time ago or never used CPU for these purposes in the first place.

What video editors are you talking about specifically?

Re: The AMD Ryzen 3 3300X and 3100 CPU Review: A Budget Gaming Bonanza

#59

Post by leetcrew » Thu, May 07, 2020, 5:13 PM UTC

bane wrote: post #26

gambiting wrote: post #6

So I was recently looking at those as options for a very low budget video editing PC for someone, and yes, AMD destroys intel in raw CPU performance for the same price, however in those low-budget applications Intel has an upper hand - integrated GPU. With AMD you either have to go with the super crappy 3400G, which is a really poor CPU(but also very cheap), or for literally anything else + a dedicated GPU(which incr…

There's an important market segment though that these will suit well. People on budgets doing upgrades of cheap systems. They'll likely continue to use their old video card, which will probably be better than Intel's integrated GPU, but will swap out the motherboard and CPU (and maybe RAM). When I was much younger, and on much more of a budget, these "computers of theseus" were my main rigs for a long time. The meta-…

> When I was much younger, and on much more of a budget, these "computers of theseus" were my main rigs for a long time. The meta-game was to try to see how few parts you had to swap out from piecemeal upgrade to piecemeal upgrade.

I still do it like this, despite having plenty of money to spend on hardware. if it ain't broke...

Re: The AMD Ryzen 3 3300X and 3100 CPU Review: A Budget Gaming Bonanza

#60

Post by ksec » Thu, May 07, 2020, 5:13 PM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #6

So I was recently looking at those as options for a very low budget video editing PC for someone, and yes, AMD destroys intel in raw CPU performance for the same price, however in those low-budget applications Intel has an upper hand - integrated GPU. With AMD you either have to go with the super crappy 3400G, which is a really poor CPU(but also very cheap), or for literally anything else + a dedicated GPU(which incr…

As you suggested I think there is market for Desktop using the Ryzen Mobile 4000 Parts.

This used to be a thing where the Motherboard maker would sell the Board + Mobile Chip soldered. Not sure if you could still do that.

And it is not like Zen 2 Desktop APU aren't coming. Just a tad later. I think the current roadmap from AMD is pretty solid. Although I do wish their sales and marketing execution to be much better.