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Florian Schneider has died

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Florian Schneider has died

#131

Post by mcnamaratw »

bogomipz wrote: post #127
ratww wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Circuit bending" implies they're using an existing circuit. They connected the pads directly to the innards of the drum machine. I consider this circuit bending. "The pads had no dynamics at all" doesn't mean they didn't manufacture the pads. You seem to have an axe to grind here. IMO this is not only bad form in the HN itself, but also very distasteful in a thread about someone who just passed away. I won't answer…

I seem to have "an axe to grind" because I'm a fan and interested in discussing facts about the group? I've shared numerous links in this post that would be of interest to any Kraftwerk fan. It should be very clear that I am quite the super fan. And this is distasteful and bad form? Wow. Kraftwerk in many ways was the ultimate nerd band. I believe that Florian Schneider would be tickled to know his fans were painfull…

Maybe, but if they were screwing around with the inside of the equipment, that kinda is circuit bending tho.

Re: Florian Schneider has died

#132

Post by mcnamaratw »

bborud wrote: post #128
bogomipz wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Synthorama was created by Matten and Wiechers of Bonn[1] Nobody in Kraftwerk was an electrical engineer. I am not sure how you "outline" a synthesizer unless you mean writing a schematic, something nobody in the band could do. I'm not trying to detract from their genius in any way but the idea that they created their own gear is largely folklore. [1] https://sdiy.info/wiki/Synthesizerstudio_Bonn

I can recommend this book to understand how you can essentially design a synthesizer without actually knowing any electronics. It shows a notation for expressing how to wire together various parts of a synthesizer. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1795693416/patch-and-tw... Another interesting source is the Deadmau5 masterclass. What is striking is that Joel Zimmer has neither vocabulary, nor technical understand…

Still, using a modular synth well, which seems to be an extremely demanding art in its own right, is really not the same art as designing a synthesizer.

Re: Florian Schneider has died

#133

Post by mcnamaratw »

bogomipz wrote: post #58
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They often designed the units in outline but other people implemented the ideas - like the Synthanorma sequencer, which was a product in its own right and eventually evolved into the Doepfer MAQ. There's some mystery about who designed their robo-speech box [1], because Schneider (and colleagues) actually patented it. [1] Not the vocoder, but the chip-speech system used on The Mix.

Synthorama was created by Matten and Wiechers of Bonn[1] Nobody in Kraftwerk was an electrical engineer. I am not sure how you "outline" a synthesizer unless you mean writing a schematic, something nobody in the band could do. I'm not trying to detract from their genius in any way but the idea that they created their own gear is largely folklore. [1] https://sdiy.info/wiki/Synthesizerstudio_Bonn

>I am not sure how you "outline" a synthesizer unless you mean writing a schematic

This feels a little extreme. Artists can obviously collaborate with engineers on musical instrument design. The contribution is real even if the artist is clueless about like how the oscillators are temperature compensated.

Re: Florian Schneider has died

#134

Post by barbegal »

jerkstate wrote: post #91

Interpol Deutsche Bank FBI Scotland Yard Business Money Numbers People Here is Ralf und Florian's patent for the electronic drum machine: https://patents.google.com/patent/USD244717S/en These guys were the musical version of Jules Verne or HG Wells. Truly visionary.

Note this is a design patent rather than the more commonly known utility patent so it only protects the ornamental design of the drum machine.

Re: Florian Schneider has died

#135

Post by krebs_liebhaber »

There's something very poignant about Kraftwerk's style, branding, and album art that I can't quite put my finger on. The way they put their own faces on pretty much everything, always well-dressed, always clean and "together". The lyrics about such simple things, travelling Europe by rail and seeing things, praising new technology... We need that optimism today. RIP.

Re: Florian Schneider has died

#136

Post by bogomipz »

Ididntdothis wrote: post #2

Now their music is kind of obvious but when you think about the scene back then it’s pretty amazing what they did.

Interestingly enough the "scene" back then for them had elements that would have influenced and/or encouraged their direction. The Federal Republic of Germany actively tried to promote a musical identity that was a contrast to the GDR's populist music policy. The culmination of this was the electronic music studios known as WDR(Westdeutscher Rundfunk) and their radio broadcasts.

Hutter has acknowledged listening to those WDR broadcasts out of Cologne. Just to connect the dots Conny Plank, Kraftwerk's producer on Autobahn was an engineer at GDR. Karlheinz Stockhausen who was a Kraftwerek influence and hugely important figure in his own right ran the WDR. The WDR history and its importance to electronic music is pretty fascinating. You can read about it here:

http://120years.net/wdr-electronic-music-studio-germany-1951...

and

https://daily.redbullmusicacademy.com/2017/08/stockhausen-ph...

Dusseldorf also had the Kunstacademie which was run by Fluxus artist Joseph Beuys who regularly held "art happening." These art happenings were also some of Kraftwerk's first gigs.

Beyond that the whole German prog rock scene that sprang up around Dusseldorf and Cologne at that time with bands like Can, Neu! and Faust was all about experimentation.

Re: Florian Schneider has died

#137

Post by Ididntdothis »

jacquesm wrote: post #105
dvirsky wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. Can you give an example? I've never bothered to translate the German lyrics.

Compare Sie ist ein Model und sie sieht gut aus Ich nähm sie heut gerne mit zu mir nach Haus Sie wirkt so kühl, an sie kommt niemand ran Doch vor der Kamera da zeigt sie was sie kann Sie trinkt in Nachtclubs immer Sekt (Korrekt!) Und hat hier alle Männer abgecheckt Im Scheinwerferlicht ihr junges Lächeln strahlt Sie sieht gut aus und Schönheit wird bezahlt Sie stellt sich zur Schau für das Konsumprodukt Und wird von…

I agree. The German lyrics are very skillful whereas the English version feels just flat. You see the same in movies when you watch the English version vs the dubbed German version. The English movie has a lot of depth that usually gets lost in the German version.

Re: Florian Schneider has died

#138

Post by 908087 »

bogomipz wrote: post #125
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

KW specifically asked for (actually were persuaded to commission) two step sequencers - not "something to automate their tape loops." It was the same process Tangerine Dream went through with Projekt Elektronik, PPG, Steinberg, and other collaborators. The band had an idea or some product feedback, and the designers implemented it. KW's sequencers were unique in that they had rotary switches instead of pots for the s…

>"KW specifically asked for (actually were persuaded to commission) two step sequencers - not "something to automate their tape loops."" A tape loop is nothing more than a primitive form of sequencer. By definition they loop a sequence. They do the exact same thing. So not having to physically change the tapes and speeds on a tape machine by programming it into a sequencer is most definitely "automating" that process…

Might want to step off your high horse, because the person you're responding to was pretty clearly saying two step sequencers as in a quantity of two, not number of steps.

What a strange thing to get uppity about anyway.

Re: Florian Schneider has died

#139

Post by 908087 »

gmtx725 wrote: post #124
fit2rule wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love Kraftwerk, but didn't enjoy their show. It felt high tech but low effort, and I know folks are okay with that, but it all felt so trade-show/product demo and not rock show. I would have been happier if it was a bar and not an arena. This may be because: The Knife and New Order, though. Much better shows .. /ymmv

i love new order but i thought they were well-know for having bad live shows? Stuff going wrong, bum notes, lousy singing etc

That definitely mirrors my experiences with their shows.

Re: Florian Schneider has died

#140

Post by jacquesm »

bogomipz wrote: post #117
jacquesm wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can outline a synthesizer in the same way people that couldn't program their way out of a wet paper bag outline software: by writing a specification of what it should be able to do. Implementing that specification is then the job of the electrical engineers. If we're willing to give Steve Jobs credit for the iPhone I think we should be equally willing to give Schneider & company credit for their ideas that were i…

Except they didn't write down a "specification." They simply asked Matten & Wiechers to come up with something that could automate their tape loops for Trans Europe Express. Dirk Matten & Hans-Joachim Wiechers both designed and created the Synthorma to handle that task. This is well-documented. So no it was not the same a writing a technical specification any more than I'm writing a "specification" when I call my loc…

What are the chances that Matten & Wiechers would have designed the Synthorma without Kraftwerk commissioning it?

Large pepperonis can be ordered from any pizzeria, this is hardly the same kind of engagement.

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