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Florian Schneider has died

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Florian Schneider has died

#121

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #71
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Roland did that a lot. They produced these generic "bad" synthesizers and drum machines that turned out to be unbelievably funky when abused by the right people. It was a real next-level engineering super-talent. It doesn't even matter if it was deliberate. The fact that it happened so reliably is enough.

That's not next-level engineering. It's next-level marketing. The key thing about the [3-digits-here] series was that they were priced right. Not for Detroit ... priced right enough to sell enough of them, so that by the time Detroit (and Chicago) were ready, there were lots of them available second hand for very little money. And thus: techno (and house) and their progeny. OK, more precisely, that's not entirely fai…

There were a lot - a lot - of competing units that were also priced right, or even righter than the Roland gear which was never bargain basement.

Rattly cheap drum machines were all over the scene in the late 70s and 80s. None of them had the lasting impact of the 808 and 909.

There's a reason for that - the same reason that explains why the Jupiter-8 and Juno series synths are legends, while competing synths from Kawai and Korg are mostly forgotten.

Re: Florian Schneider has died

#122

Post by tomhoward »

tempsy wrote: post #74
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is basketball different because of Kobe? How is contemporary music different because of Kraftwerk? Answer these two questions accurately, and you will be surprised no more. Hint: (a) not really all that much (b) completely reinvented

There isn’t a official HN guideline that clearly delineates between the two scenarios and says why one is allowed and the other isn’t. My point is that it’s entirely subjective, but everyone flagging the Kobe story in January was yelling about how it broke site policy when it’s clearly just a preference thing.

Clearly, on a community-driven site, the appropriateness of a given story will be determined by the community's sentiment.

Nobody said the Kobe story wasn't important in the grand scheme of things; just not of particular interest to this community.

Whereas it's not hard to see why, on a site called Hacker News, the community would find noteworthy the passing of a pioneer of music produced on computers.

Re: Florian Schneider has died

#123

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

bogomipz wrote: post #117
jacquesm wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can outline a synthesizer in the same way people that couldn't program their way out of a wet paper bag outline software: by writing a specification of what it should be able to do. Implementing that specification is then the job of the electrical engineers. If we're willing to give Steve Jobs credit for the iPhone I think we should be equally willing to give Schneider & company credit for their ideas that were i…

Except they didn't write down a "specification." They simply asked Matten & Wiechers to come up with something that could automate their tape loops for Trans Europe Express. Dirk Matten & Hans-Joachim Wiechers both designed and created the Synthorma to handle that task. This is well-documented. So no it was not the same a writing a technical specification any more than I'm writing a "specification" when I call my loc…

KW specifically asked for (actually were persuaded to commission) two step sequencers - not "something to automate their tape loops."

It was the same process Tangerine Dream went through with Projekt Elektronik, PPG, Steinberg, and other collaborators. The band had an idea or some product feedback, and the designers implemented it.

KW's sequencers were unique in that they had rotary switches instead of pots for the sequence steps, which made them much easier to program.

Re: Florian Schneider has died

#124

Post by gmtx725 »

fit2rule wrote: post #116
gdubs wrote: post #48

Legend. I saw Kraftwerk live years ago and it was one of the most overwhelming performances I’ve ever seen in my life. Beneath the bouncy, poppy hooks there was a massive darkness — the pairing of visuals with the music really drove that home. (The only other live musical performance that I recall giving me a similar feeling was the band ‘Godspeed You Black Emperor‘, who also made use of projected imagery in such a t…

I love Kraftwerk, but didn't enjoy their show. It felt high tech but low effort, and I know folks are okay with that, but it all felt so trade-show/product demo and not rock show. I would have been happier if it was a bar and not an arena. This may be because: The Knife and New Order, though. Much better shows .. /ymmv

i love new order but i thought they were well-know for having bad live shows? Stuff going wrong, bum notes, lousy singing etc

Re: Florian Schneider has died

#125

Post by bogomipz »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #123
bogomipz wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except they didn't write down a "specification." They simply asked Matten & Wiechers to come up with something that could automate their tape loops for Trans Europe Express. Dirk Matten & Hans-Joachim Wiechers both designed and created the Synthorma to handle that task. This is well-documented. So no it was not the same a writing a technical specification any more than I'm writing a "specification" when I call my loc…

KW specifically asked for (actually were persuaded to commission) two step sequencers - not "something to automate their tape loops." It was the same process Tangerine Dream went through with Projekt Elektronik, PPG, Steinberg, and other collaborators. The band had an idea or some product feedback, and the designers implemented it. KW's sequencers were unique in that they had rotary switches instead of pots for the s…

>"KW specifically asked for (actually were persuaded to commission) two step sequencers - not "something to automate their tape loops.""

A tape loop is nothing more than a primitive form of sequencer. By definition they loop a sequence. They do the exact same thing. So not having to physically change the tapes and speeds on a tape machine by programming it into a sequencer is most definitely "automating" that process. The issue with analog tape machines is that they were not fun to deal with on the road or work with live.

And no they were not "two step" sequencers. What would be the point in that? You could do that with that a single finger - on/off. The Synthorama was a 16 step analogue sequencer and they had two of them which game them a 32 bit sequence to work with[1]

[1] http://kraftwerkfaq.hu/equipment.html

Re: Florian Schneider has died

#126

Post by LordHeini »

CaciaraAsAServi wrote: post #115
jacquesm wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compare Sie ist ein Model und sie sieht gut aus Ich nähm sie heut gerne mit zu mir nach Haus Sie wirkt so kühl, an sie kommt niemand ran Doch vor der Kamera da zeigt sie was sie kann Sie trinkt in Nachtclubs immer Sekt (Korrekt!) Und hat hier alle Männer abgecheckt Im Scheinwerferlicht ihr junges Lächeln strahlt Sie sieht gut aus und Schönheit wird bezahlt Sie stellt sich zur Schau für das Konsumprodukt Und wird von…

Heh, I remember learning some German just to understand their lyrics, some years ago. Funniest one I remember is, in Computerwelt, Flensburg und das BKA / Haben unsere Daten da... where BKA is the federal German police and Flensburg is the city where they held some data about people (or still do, I don't know).

The agency collecting points for bad driving is located in Flensburg.

Having "Punkte in Flensburg" thus means one got caught driving too fast, under the influence or over a red light etc.

If you collect too many points you lose your drivers license and have to do a test and psychological exam to get it back.

This test usually called the "Idiotentest" because you drive like an idiot and you (deservedly) get treated like an idiot by the agency.

The whole affair is really annoying, expensive and takes quite some time.

If you fail the psychological exam (they find out you are an alcoholic for examle) you might never get the license back.

Re: Florian Schneider has died

#127

Post by bogomipz »

ratww wrote: post #120
bogomipz wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No this is not correct. The drums were just a Maestro Rhythm King Unit[1]. The pads had no dynamics at all. The dynamics were basically a foot pedal that controlled the volume. Both the volume pedals and the guts of the Maestro Rhythm King are visible in their 1975 appearance of on the BBC's "Tomorrow's World" where they play Autobahn[2]. There was no "circuit bending" going on. [1] http://www.maindragmusic.com/ca-19…

"Circuit bending" implies they're using an existing circuit. They connected the pads directly to the innards of the drum machine. I consider this circuit bending. "The pads had no dynamics at all" doesn't mean they didn't manufacture the pads. You seem to have an axe to grind here. IMO this is not only bad form in the HN itself, but also very distasteful in a thread about someone who just passed away. I won't answer…

I seem to have "an axe to grind" because I'm a fan and interested in discussing facts about the group? I've shared numerous links in this post that would be of interest to any Kraftwerk fan. It should be very clear that I am quite the super fan. And this is distasteful and bad form? Wow.

Kraftwerk in many ways was the ultimate nerd band. I believe that Florian Schneider would be tickled to know his fans were painfully dissecting the minutiae and lore of his equipment.

I was also careful to point out in my original comment that I was "not trying to detract from their genius in any way."

Re: Florian Schneider has died

#128

Post by bborud »

bogomipz wrote: post #58
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They often designed the units in outline but other people implemented the ideas - like the Synthanorma sequencer, which was a product in its own right and eventually evolved into the Doepfer MAQ. There's some mystery about who designed their robo-speech box [1], because Schneider (and colleagues) actually patented it. [1] Not the vocoder, but the chip-speech system used on The Mix.

Synthorama was created by Matten and Wiechers of Bonn[1] Nobody in Kraftwerk was an electrical engineer. I am not sure how you "outline" a synthesizer unless you mean writing a schematic, something nobody in the band could do. I'm not trying to detract from their genius in any way but the idea that they created their own gear is largely folklore. [1] https://sdiy.info/wiki/Synthesizerstudio_Bonn

I can recommend this book to understand how you can essentially design a synthesizer without actually knowing any electronics. It shows a notation for expressing how to wire together various parts of a synthesizer.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1795693416/patch-and-tw...

Another interesting source is the Deadmau5 masterclass. What is striking is that Joel Zimmer has neither vocabulary, nor technical understanding of how modulars actually work - yet he is eminently able to use a modular synthesizer and (kind of) explain how they work. Using a large modular synthesizer is essentially assembling a synthesizer out of parts - and this requires understanding the connection between the parts and the sonic results.

Re: Florian Schneider has died

#129

Post by mcnamaratw »

jacquesm wrote: post #98
bogomipz wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Synthorama was created by Matten and Wiechers of Bonn[1] Nobody in Kraftwerk was an electrical engineer. I am not sure how you "outline" a synthesizer unless you mean writing a schematic, something nobody in the band could do. I'm not trying to detract from their genius in any way but the idea that they created their own gear is largely folklore. [1] https://sdiy.info/wiki/Synthesizerstudio_Bonn

You can outline a synthesizer in the same way people that couldn't program their way out of a wet paper bag outline software: by writing a specification of what it should be able to do. Implementing that specification is then the job of the electrical engineers. If we're willing to give Steve Jobs credit for the iPhone I think we should be equally willing to give Schneider & company credit for their ideas that were i…

Kraftwerk were great. But their greatness wasn't primarily in making novel sounds. Where they really stomped on the terra was in making good music using ideas that various useless and unlistenable academic electronic music "composers" had been screwing up for at least a couple of decades.

Relatively few people celebrate forerunners like Morton Subotnik, Karlheinz Stockhausen, or Iannis Xenakis as innovators, and that is because those guys sucked. Kraftwerk rocked, and we can hear the difference.

IMO, IMO.

Re: Florian Schneider has died

#130

Post by beeforpork »

gdubs wrote: post #48

Legend. I saw Kraftwerk live years ago and it was one of the most overwhelming performances I’ve ever seen in my life. Beneath the bouncy, poppy hooks there was a massive darkness — the pairing of visuals with the music really drove that home. (The only other live musical performance that I recall giving me a similar feeling was the band ‘Godspeed You Black Emperor‘, who also made use of projected imagery in such a t…

Yeah, I saw them in NYC many years ago and was supprised how openly people were smoking weed. :-)

Anyway, the show was great!

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