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Citing revenue declines, Airbnb cuts 25% of workforce

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Re: Citing revenue declines, Airbnb cuts 25% of workforce

#591

Post by wyclif »

blackoil wrote: post #571
11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In many countries, there is no concept of 'at will employment'. It is not surprising that HNers from such countries would be incredulous. Employment law in Europe, for example, frequently requires the severance terms to be determined at the time the employee is signed up. The employment agreement is a contract, and will be signed by all positions in the firm. In many cases, the severance terms are based on law. Among…

>Among other differences, for example, a German President is personally liable for the financial obligations of their company. If the company goes bankrupt, so does he. In US new enterprise have a very high failure rate, how do entrepreneurs survive in such environment?

I think you answered your own question. In the US, entrepreneurs are not personally liable. Now, that's not the same thing as saying that failure won't reflect badly on their reputation. But it is definitely a lot easier to have a comeback career if you don't have to declare personal bankruptcy.

Re: Citing revenue declines, Airbnb cuts 25% of workforce

#592

Post by eru »

tialaramex wrote: post #576
jklein11 wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't downvote the OP but I am picking up a tone of indignation that I don't quite understand. I find this pretty interesting. Here is my take on the situation: Let's say I own a widget factory and you are highly skilled at turning paper clips into widgets. We agree on a price for your time and I hire you to start making widgets. Things are going gangbusters, you produce a ton of widgets and I pay you for the time…

It cuts both ways. I live in the UK. Here the obligation is symmetric. All my recent work has been on 90 day terms. That is, if either I or the employer wish the contract to end normally that requires 90 days of notice unless both parties agree otherwise. My most recent employer decided their costs were too high compared to projected income, so they gave me 90 days notice back in 2019. At that point I knew that in 90…

Gardening leave is quite common in the US. No sure whether the term itself is known, though?

Paying out a notice period is very different from severance pay. I can assure you that AirBnB does not have a 14 weeks notice period.

(American companies also pay you out the notice period, and some send you on gardening leave, if they want you out of the office. But notice periods in America seem to be generally shorter, like 14 days, for most more junior jobs. In the UK one month seems to be more standard?)

Re: Citing revenue declines, Airbnb cuts 25% of workforce

#593

Post by eru »

wolco wrote: post #551
jklein11 wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't downvote the OP but I am picking up a tone of indignation that I don't quite understand. I find this pretty interesting. Here is my take on the situation: Let's say I own a widget factory and you are highly skilled at turning paper clips into widgets. We agree on a price for your time and I hire you to start making widgets. Things are going gangbusters, you produce a ton of widgets and I pay you for the time…

Under the rules you live in you are not. Why is it a good idea? Employees less likely to leave without notice. Employees stay longer because the safety net grows. Less likely to speak poorly about you after leaving More secure in their job. More emotional invested. What are your reasons for not? Even if google stops selling at home they will keep the server alive for a grace period. I had a friend who ran a bitcoin m…

Those are all good arguments for voluntarily paying for severance, or to agreeing to such a payment upfront in the employment contract.

But they are no reason to legally require severance pay.

Re: Citing revenue declines, Airbnb cuts 25% of workforce

#594

Post by nilkn »

mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #572
nilkn wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I don’t think this is true. The entire sales team where I work is itching to be able to travel to potential customers again. They’re not at all satisfied with Zoom as a replacement.

Administrators above them though are beginning to see their desire to travel isn’t actual justified in greater business value, so their mere preference or their assertion is less likely to be believed.

Travel for current or prospective customers has some of the best ROI of nearly any expense at the company, and this is well understood. To the contrary, everyone up the chain including the CEO is even more eager to resume sales travel.

Re: Citing revenue declines, Airbnb cuts 25% of workforce

#595

Post by eru »

mav3rick wrote: post #238
jameslevy wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Monthly vesting without a year one cliff is not really done, AFAIK. I also don't think that there is a lot of wiggle room for negotiated severance terms. But sign on bonuses and 200k base pay could certainly be on the table.

It happens at both F & G in FAANG.

I had a first year cliff at Google a few years ago. But they might have changed that.

Facebook definitely doesn't have a cliff in 2020.

Re: Citing revenue declines, Airbnb cuts 25% of workforce

#596

Post by eru »

freepor wrote: post #446
monktastic1 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Monthly vesting in the first year?

The only point of the one year cliff is to pay someone less, or keep a startup’s cap table clean. For a public company there would be no point.

The other point is to bind people to the company.

It's very similar to a sign-on bonus you can claw back in the first year or two.

Re: Citing revenue declines, Airbnb cuts 25% of workforce

#597

Post by dorchadas »

talideon wrote: post #345
vzidex wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The funniest case will be if governments don't even have to step in - I've read cases of AirBNB hosts being extremely overleveraged in their "investment" properties. With some luck, they'll be forced to sell or convert to long-term rentals (which are _very_ strongly protected where I live) to avoid defaulting on the cheap debt they gorged on.

There is, unfortunately, the risk of others doing the exactly the same thing subsequently, because they'll see this as a black swan event that will clear out the market of smaller overleveraged AirBnB "hosts", leaving them to purchase the properties in question. There are some big players, such as "The Key Collection", who are heavy users of AirBnB, with a large number of properties, as well as more legitimate proper…

Yeah, that is an unfortunate situation that Ireland has found itself in. I know several of the people I've talked to (most of them native Irish speakers), are really upset about it, having voted for Sinn Féin, and them getting the majority of the votes but not ending up controlling parliament.

Still, at least the outlook will hopefully be decent for me if I do move there this year (depends on how I think economy is going...and if uni's actually do open in September).

Re: Citing revenue declines, Airbnb cuts 25% of workforce

#598

Post by eru »

jacquesm wrote: post #540
schkkd wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why when a yet another aspiring startup wants to hire me, I ask for a high sign on bonus as an insurance, monthly vesting cycle, at least 200k in base pay and high severance upon termination. Never been given that, but I don't regret: looking back, all those "just 1 year till IPO" companies are underwater.

If you've never been given that then this is content free.

Mostly, but not completely content free.

Lots of people are afraid when negotiating, and the original comment shows that even making big demands up front is not catastrophic. You can still cave in later.

Re: Citing revenue declines, Airbnb cuts 25% of workforce

#599

Post by misun78 »

sulam wrote: post #479
supernova87a wrote: post #249

If Airbnb is willing to pay 14 weeks (3.25 months) of severance, they must believe this is going to go on significantly longer than that. Or they're using this as an opportunity to cut underperformers at the same time. Because if they believed things would start to recover by fall, wouldn't you just pay the people as normal and make a judgement call around then? You're spending the payroll money either way -- 14 week…

All indications are that we are going to experience a not-so-great depression. Not a recession, an honest-to-goodness depression. 2020 will be down YoY in terms economic output probably across the world, and it wouldn't surprise me if that's not only true for Q2-Q4, but if it also lingers into Q1. My guess is that we will feel like things are growing again this time next year. Some economists are hoping for a better…

The markets seem to vehemently disagree with that entire narrative.

Re: Citing revenue declines, Airbnb cuts 25% of workforce

#600

Post by [deleted] »

newhouseb wrote: post #231
eganist wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm shocked that 2020 revenues will come in only 50% below 2019 This is a fair point, but it also suggests strongly that a significant minority of their business is month to month rentals, possibly in place of leasing. And hey, being frank, I wouldn't mind considering going somewhere else for a few months now that I can work remotely for a while.

I have no real data, but anecdotally a large number of my peer group (tech folks in NYC) fled the NY Metro Area in March. Those who had (not at-risk) family nearby stayed with family, while others (like myself and my partner) are quarantined in Airbnbs in more remote areas (although still close to a functioning medical system). It's costing us an arm and a leg, but we've been very fortunate in that we can afford it.…

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