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Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

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Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Working the land, being close to home, running a family business, belonging to a small town of people you all known, having the social safety net of many people that are close to you and your family, being an independent contributor in the town's economy, etc. etc. This is how things were a few hundred years ago. Let’s not overglamorize rural poverty. This life came with 20–40% infant mortality and a very high rate…

Nobody's glamorizing rural poverty, the point was that our over-compartmentalized work culture is a relatively very recent phenomenon with negative consequences for many people such as decreased work satisfaction, decreased sense of social safety net/community, and loneliness. It's kind of annoying how every time someone discusses aspects of society that may have regressed from the past, somebody chimes in to remind…

There are a lot of negative aspects to a career spent «working the land» and «living in a small town where everyone knows everything about you, anonymity/privacy are impossible, and you depend on your neighbors for survival» even if you leave aside the «before modern technology» part.

But the previous commenter was explicitly talking about the supposed golden time of rural life a few centuries ago. In practice it was a hard and stressful life both physically and socially.

The summary of the downsides of peasant life was:

> Yes, there was less high tech gadgetry. There were corrupt officials, plagues, bad people. There will always be some element of this.

This is a dramatic understatement, to say the least.

> in our current society you are just a drone. [...] Don't be depressed because it seems like this is how it's always been. It hasn't.

Rural peasants have been treated much more like “just drones” for the past 8 (?) millennia since large-scale civilization built on agriculture than any modern office worker. (Hunter–gatherer societies are different in many ways, though also often precarious.)

Rural peasants do not lack for work anxiety. Or anxiety in their interpersonal relationships. In rural peasant societies many people feel alienated. Domestic abuse is rampant. And so on.

There are many beautiful and nostalgic things about historical rural life. But we shouldn’t get carried away.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#402
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One can have the viewpoint that on average humans were likely happier 30,000 years ago, and that technology was a bad deal for us overall, without advocating that the solution is bombing society back in time.

I don't think technology is the problem. I think the institutions that install or preserve the structures that cause a lot of people misery is the problem.

The institutions are all humans, I think it’s an “us” problem :)

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#403

I think the fundamental flaw is trying to be 'successful'. Playing that game invariably requires you to pretend to be what you think the market wants. I would suggest you think about building something you want that you find fun. If you're a scuba diver, build a dive computer. If you're a woodworker make a tool for making the best use of a board. The most important thing is you absolutely don't plan on making it a wo…

For most people it's not about trying to be successful. It's about not having to be stressed out daily about basic needs like home, health, transport, kids upbringing etc. Unfortunately it all costs a lot of money these days, which makes you take a compromise for the sake of security for you and your closest relatives.

I share zackbloom's view that OP overly tried to be (financially) successful. Instead the ultra fast pace and high pressure of a VC backed startup he could have bootstrapped and instead of the soulcrushing corporate job he could have worked at a small company where there is no politics and people care about each other and their craft.

I don't know if OP deliberately chose to chase money, but he did and now complains that he lost his passion for technology. Yes, the other options leave you only with half or even less of the income but you will remain happy and can have a fulfilling work environment. With a software development job you will have a comfortable income no matter where you work so "i needed the money" is not an excuse.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#404

I wrote nearly this exact message in my mood journal today. I haven't had it quite as bad as the author, but I'm extremely, and it feels like permanently, burned out of working for a business/corporation. I fundamentally hate it. I walked out of my first corporate job after a month and now that I'm on my second, all I can think about is walking out. I hate it. I hate it so much. Every single day feels like I'm ruinin…

Seek therapy, it helps.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#405
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is right. The OP said he is "disillusioned with technology" but I didn't see actual technology being described as the problem with any point. So there's a conflation here happening between technology and "tech" companies. And I can only say the phrase "tech" companies while using sarcasm quotes around "tech", because almost nobody at any of these companies develops actual technology. And that's a big part of the…

There's a subculture that's reinvented the merits of software engineering to being as ornate and ceremonious as possible. It doesn't have to work well, or be bug free, or compatible with the previous version, or address any real world need. No! Instead it has to use fashionable technology and be extremely complicated so other programmers can see how incredibly clever they are! Almost like they took a random bug from…

I don't agree with this view. I agree with the original commentor's comment. I do this myself outside of work just to enjoy building something without the responsibility of having to maintain it with 20 other engineers for two more decades.

However, even I can see that a team would get burnt if they built an enterprise software the way I code my personal email client. The problem here is that people forget that building software professionally is an engineering job. Like other forms of engineering, there are processes and good practices to facilitate both functional and non functional aspects of a software and the building process. While the extra burden of version control, testability and extendability takes some of the fun away, I would have reservations working with someone who pushes directly to a release branch, does not write test and hardcode values instead of uaing configuration. It's about balance and realising that job is a job.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#406
> Then I worked for a tech giant, and then for a high-growth unicorn. It shocked me how dilbertesque they both were. Full of politicians, and burnt out engineers in golden handcuffs who can't wait to get out, and meaningless business speak, and checked out employees who pretend they're "excited" about everything all the time.

I left my big city office job to work remotely (after a 2.5 year "sabbatical" traveling the world) precisely because I couldn't stand that sh anymore. Remote work isn't a panacea and does have its cons, but no way in hell I'd trade it back for any office job.

In terms of finding one's "spark", I can relate. I used to be pretty starry-eyed too, majoring in math (because I enjoyed it, not for job opportunities or money), and working on a bunch of different kinds of projects for fun. As I've gotten older and had to succumb to the working world, I've also gotten more and more disillusioned over the years. I've felt my creativity and passion diminish.

I'd say part of it is from getting older, part of it is just a byproduct of our capitalist system that forces everyone to rent themselves out for money to rich people who want to make more money and become cogs in the "dilbertesque" machine exactly as you described. As bad as it is, it wouldn't be half as bad in my opinion if we could at least talk about it honestly, but sadly this can get you fired.

I don't have the solution, but I'd say to start by being less hard on yourself because most of those burnt out engineers are in the same position as you, they just didn't have the conviction or courage to follow through and leave. Accept that one's job is purely impersonal and just for money and co-workers are just business relationships, and don't expect more than that or you'll inevitably bound for disappointment.

Clarify what your goals are. Do you want to make money? Improve society? Work on intellectually challenging problems? Be happy? Those are all very different goals with different solutions.

And thanks for writing this post. The enormous reception is proof that you're not alone here, that a lot more of us feel the same way as you than you think. It's a sad reflection of our system, but short of a revolution all we can do is do the best we can. FIRE (financial independence) is the only true freedom of time.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#407
> I can't say it's because I wanted to make the world a better place.

i see you saying this, but i don't think you believe this. the way you ended your essay sounds like you do want to make the world a better place through technology.

i am myself burnt out on technology, and i have come to a realization on something that's been burning a while. the simple fact of the matter is that society cannot be helped with technology. just get over that dream. this is all very clear in today's global health crisis. quite nearly all the problems are emphatically not technological in nature and cannot be solved with more technology.

it sounds like to me that you are actually happy but aren't happy with how or why you're happy. maybe that is something to work on? i'm not that old, but as i have aged, i see now that life is a blip. this drive to make a so-called mark is a fool's errand. just enjoy life locally and quit trying to have a global effect. so be happy that you've found some happiness.

i say "so what?" you can't read science fiction. why is that a mark of demerit? read dramas. read thrillers. read westerns. read comedies. there's a ton of material out there that has nothing to do with science. despite science's progress, it still cannot answer or even come close to exploring areas of life that we experience.

stop caring about products. think about things in emotive terms. if you like programming and creating and mathematics, maybe get into creative coding? use your technical ability to search for new expression. maybe use programming to explore your knot theory excursion. maybe volunteer your time to help people or communities who need technology help (i think one can help society on a very local level with a certain amount of technology).

i don't understand why you want to force a path. if a path is closed, it's closed. it doesn't make sense to be happy on your path with tons of other paths out there but to stand in front of the closed path asking "why?". move on and explore.

in dealing with depression and anxiety, the most powerful thought is to understand that you can't change the world. it makes no sense to try and change it, as you'll bury a deeper hole. all the drugs and therapy are meant to be catalyst to a realization that you can't bend the world as if you're gravity and that you must learn to ride the wave in a healthy way and make small adjustments to go where you want to go.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#408

I have also experience close to burnout and recovered multiple times, in the process I have lost very precious relationships, and entire years were spent in darkness. I also have friends who have been in tech for close to ten years, and are close to burning out though they would never admit to such. This is the nature of the beast, all things that appear glamorous on the outside ( Hollywood, Finance, Tech, many nonpr…

All accurate and objective and good for everyone to know early rather than late. Moving a bit further from the specifics, it's worth noting that this is not a natural state of affairs. Humans evolved to be in groups of about 30-100 people who they knew their whole lives and thus making catastrophic deception nearly impossible. Likewise vast sums of wealth did not exist nor total social and fiscal isolation surrounded…

> Humans evolved to be in groups of about 30-100 people who they knew their whole lives and thus making catastrophic deception nearly impossible.

A plausible just-so story, but still only that.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#409
I wish I got to know you and your experience a bit better. But perhaps you didn't work on things that were ambitious enough? Some causes where technology need coders like us are so daunting and scary that it can be good for our personal motivation. Yes, I mean for you to seek out some fear and trembling. For me, if the project is too definite, too attainable, it feels like there is little exploration.

It's natural for us to go towards jobs and projects that feel secure. However security can often bring about boredom and bitterness if you let it take over you everyday.

I'd disagree with the statement that those people weren't your friends. Friends come and go (family too!), live and enjoy great people in the moment. There is nothing wrong with enjoying fleeting moments with people. If they become friends for long time; great. If not, it was fun while it lasted. Not everything has to evaluated for long-term ROI.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All accurate and objective and good for everyone to know early rather than late. Moving a bit further from the specifics, it's worth noting that this is not a natural state of affairs. Humans evolved to be in groups of about 30-100 people who they knew their whole lives and thus making catastrophic deception nearly impossible. Likewise vast sums of wealth did not exist nor total social and fiscal isolation surrounded…

I agree with the OP comment, and also with this one. It is important to understand two things in coping with the state of the world in my opinion. 1) The reality is you need to find validation and fulfilment outside of work, because in our current society you are just a drone. 2) Don't be depressed because it seems like this is how it's always been. It hasn't. Our work culture is broken. People never used to be so fa…

> Working the land, being close to home, running a family business, belonging to a small town of people you all known, having the social safety net of many people that are close to you and your family, being an independent contributor in the town's economy, etc. etc. This is how things were a few hundred years ago.

I always wonder where and when exactly when people say things like that. Because whatever period I look at, there were wast groups of people who did not lived like this happy ideal.

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