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Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

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Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#301
post #176
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... as were those that think biology predetermines everything

not really sure what point you're trying to make here. You don't believe in biology?

Perhaps it was a reference to nature vs. nurture, and how they can both play a part in outcomes.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UB started with the right observations, but arrived at the wrong means prescriptions. He wandered off alone into the weeds, in both senses. A wiser realization is that it's those in established power and the rich who are actively or willfully ignorantly sabotaging the planet and condemning billions of people to relatively more poverty, misery, disease, and death. A million people nonviolently showing up to the seats…

"Nonviolently showing up"? I might or might not agree but let's face it, most of us won't even bother to show up at a voting place on election day. People just don't care. Maybe they'll kvetch to their acquaintances about how bad the other side is, but overall there's a lot of complacency. Similarly, you don't need to arrest corrupt politicians, you just need to not vote for them. Support a primary challenger if they…

I think the problem in the current US political system is that a tiny majority of votes wins you everything. If this won you the 49% you deserve, then things would be different.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#303
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Moving a bit further from the specifics, it's worth noting that this is not a natural state of affairs. Humans evolved to be in groups of about 30-100 people who they knew their whole lives Yup, there are still some anarcho-primitivists who think technology was a bad deal for us humans overall, and that living in a tribal setting of hunters-gatherers is best. The infamous "unabomber manifesto" was broadly advocatin…

One can have the viewpoint that on average humans were likely happier 30,000 years ago, and that technology was a bad deal for us overall, without advocating that the solution is bombing society back in time.

It’d be a very drastic, but arguably fairly effective solution.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#304
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get collapseos, it has a bundled z80 emulator and some shell. Learn forth and continue doing Z80 coding. It's really fun.

Thanks, i'll give it a try. :)

Also remember gopher is still alive. My gopher list:

1436.ninja

1436.ninja/1/Port70News

1436.ninja/1/Project_Gutenberg_in_Gopherspace

2f30.org

bay.parazy.de

bitreich.org

box.matto.nl

floodgap.com

fritterware.org

gopher.gluon.me

gopher.viste.fr

gopher.viste.fr/1/ogup/list

gopher://661.org/1if-archive

gopher://adamsgaard.dk/1

gopher://ascraeus.org/1/books

gopher://ftp.icm.edu.pl

gopher://gopher.661.org

gopher://gopher.leveck.us

gopher://gopher.xpenguin.club

gopher://p3x981.com

gopher://republic.circumlunar.space/1/~katolaz/phlog

gopherddit.com

gopherpedia.com

hngopher.com

magical.fish

mozz.us

msbgtn01.synchro.net

port70.net/1/chan

rawtext.club

schinkel.bevuta.com

sdf.org

sdf.org/1/users/julienxx/Lobste.rs

khzae.net/1/chan

bbs.synchro.net/1grp:fidonet

##Usenet is alive too. If you set slrn killing all

##spam, a lot of newsgroups are still bearable.

comp.lang.c

comp.lang.moderated

comp.unix.shell

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's kind of weird by now. They will happily offer you $200k in annual salary, but an office with a window where you could keep a potted plant is out of the question.

exactly, what the hell is that about? is it a form of abuse like trying to keep everyone under control? is it a form of psychological conditioning to remind you that you just a resource whose top priority is to be interrupted at any time so knowing that you don't really have any personal space sovereignty or privacy to your own thoughts or creativity but that you must answer and create only for the collective? I don'…

I can't say for certain, but I would guess it has something to do with the idea that all people must be available to each other at all times for the sake of raw productivity. So if there is a problem there is no time to wait. You just walk right up to the person you need to speak with and get it resolved then and there.

Open offices facilitate that feeling of persistent accessibility and production. No closed doors to slow anyone down, and no notion that you are there to do anything but work every minute of every day. So why on Earth would anyone need privacy?

This is full-on agile ethos. And, for the same reason, agile is also responsible for the reversal of telecommute policies at some companies.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#306

I have experienced all of the negative emotions the OP experienced, although his seem to be more acute. Some things which have helped me are to stop thinking about succeeding or advancing in life. Those goals are so high up most people don't even get close. OP got very close by being funded, and it sounds like the whole experience was a let-down over and above the business failure. It sounds like the OP has let go of…

> Now that you know how the system works, would you feel better about yourself had you succeeded? Would you feel guilty? I think about that sometimes. Had I been one of the young optimistic CEOs running around talking about how to improve the world completely unaware of the tech underbelly, what would my life be like? If I had a button in front of me that would teleport me into that life, would I press it? I'm honest…

well based on that belief I think you might have your answers to why you went through this experience. you clearly value discovering both sides of things and you say you want to integrate that. The positive take I have on that is you want to integrate all of that information positive and negative into something stronger and more real. that's ultimately more creative and future looking then the CEO kiddies who just ride the wave of success.

not to pep talk at all but possibly you could be setting yourself up for something great in future. jobs had a pretty terrible time getting fired by the Soda executive.

the thinking of it this way and I'm just brainstorming here perhaps any resistance you have to moving forward with this new perspective could be related to the fact that you're comfortable with how you now see yourself. no longer the hundred percent optimist doing something positive for the world. it's a more compromised position. you're more embracing the shadow side as well. I can understand why that would be hard but depending on your path it might be useful and could be your destiny.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#307

I wrote nearly this exact message in my mood journal today. I haven't had it quite as bad as the author, but I'm extremely, and it feels like permanently, burned out of working for a business/corporation. I fundamentally hate it. I walked out of my first corporate job after a month and now that I'm on my second, all I can think about is walking out. I hate it. I hate it so much. Every single day feels like I'm ruinin…

I'm not quite that bad, but I hate working in software. I'm on my 23rd year now. My goal that gets me through the day is to pay off the house and other debts and live a low-expense life. That will happen within 5 years. Once that is done, I only have to pull a few contracts a year and maybe work 3-6 months out of a year. Health insurance costs in the US murk the waters a bit.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#308
post #52

People will say you're burned out, and they're not wrong... but this doesn't address the substance of the issue. To be an engineer or a scientist today means tolerating a lot of the things you've mentioned. I would amend your list to engineers that had a passion for EE and value human life (who doesn't?) but took a job at Raytheon. The things you identify are valid issues. If you're worn so thin you can't ignore them…

Thanks for the advice. This all sounds right. > I found that learning about politics and history-- specifically the history of engineering-- really helped me sort out my feelings. Is there any specific reading you'd recommend?

David Graeber's Bullshit jobs might be an alright place to start. I also just enjoy indulging in the history of places like Tektronix in the 1960s by reading oscilloscope repair manuals... learning about Bell Labs, the Rad lab. It's nice to read about healthy engineering cultures to believe such a thing is possible.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All accurate and objective and good for everyone to know early rather than late. Moving a bit further from the specifics, it's worth noting that this is not a natural state of affairs. Humans evolved to be in groups of about 30-100 people who they knew their whole lives and thus making catastrophic deception nearly impossible. Likewise vast sums of wealth did not exist nor total social and fiscal isolation surrounded…

I agree with the OP comment, and also with this one. It is important to understand two things in coping with the state of the world in my opinion. 1) The reality is you need to find validation and fulfilment outside of work, because in our current society you are just a drone. 2) Don't be depressed because it seems like this is how it's always been. It hasn't. Our work culture is broken. People never used to be so fa…

> Working the land, being close to home, running a family business, belonging to a small town of people you all known, having the social safety net of many people that are close to you and your family, being an independent contributor in the town's economy, etc. etc. This is how things were a few hundred years ago.

Let’s not overglamorize rural poverty. This life came with 20–40% infant mortality and a very high rate of maternal death in childbirth (play 5+ rounds of not-quite-russian-roulette and the odds get pretty grim). Starvation and disease were ubiquitous. Many people suffered some now-trivial injury and ended up as lifelong cripples. The work was literally backbreaking and elderly people’s (i.e. >50 years old) bodies were just wrecked after a career of hard manual labor, assuming they lived that long at all. People’s indoor time was spent in small dark rooms with an open hearth worse than the worst second-hand cigarette smoke you can possibly find, and unbelievably uncomfortable beds. In the best case food was mediocre (mostly bread or porridge or similar) and everyone was slightly malnourished, especially in the winter. People generally just shat outside near their houses and hoped the dogs would take care of it. If they wanted water (for drinking, bathing, ...) they’d have to carry it on their heads/backs from the nearest well or stream; water is very heavy.

People had to make literally everything in an extremely labor-intensive way from scratch: clothes, food, housing, furniture, toys, tools, etc. Raising sheep (or finding some other fiber) and then carding the wool, spinning the wool, weaving every piece of fabric on a hand loom, sewing fabric into clothes takes unbelievable amounts of human time. Making a small hut by hand takes weeks if not months of work (and the result is usually drafty, leaky, and not very comfortable). Making bread by hand including growing the grain and grinding it is nearly a full time job for everyone in the society.

If for whatever reason you were different from the expected norms (or just got unlucky and crossed the wrong gossipy neighbor) the rumors about you would mercilessly destroy your social life, and possibly result in exile or death if neighbors decided you were (e.g.) a witch.

The local nobles took every liberty with peasants: robbery, beatings as sport, rape, murder. The roads between towns were plagued with bandits.

Etc.

There’s a reason that the world has now experienced several centuries of dramatic migration away from rural peasant farming and toward horribly exploitative urban factory labor.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#310
Many here will attempt to give you a justification or rationale to your predicament. It's the way of coping with problems that technology teaches you (when a problem reveals itself, find a solution). Sometimes this is the right way to approach it. If you know the end you are seeking, finding a means towards it works. But if you are trying to determine the end, unthinkingly continuing down the same means is not going to satisfy your unease. This sort of thinking is something I dwell in quite a lot. I'm happy to be a sounding-board for you if you want.
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