> Then I worked for a tech giant, and then for a high-growth unicorn. It shocked me how dilbertesque they both were. Full of politicians, and burnt out engineers in golden handcuffs who can't wait to get out, and meaningless business speak, and checked out employees who pretend they're "excited" about everything all the time. The young, wide-eyed engineers seem hopelessly naive to me now. I don't know this person. I…
I feel like a lot of times when people complain about a company politics, it's only because they are on the losing side of the issue. When it works in their favor it's just the company culture. Mentally, I've started replacing complaints about politics with "nobody is listening to me".
Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help
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Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help
#232It is here in HN that I first heard Pablo Neruda's "No culpes a nadie". Even though a fan of Neruda I somehow had missed this. Perhaps this speaks to you something too: ## Don't Blame Anyone Never complain about anyone, nor anything, because basically you have done what you wanted in your life. Accept the difficulty of improving yourself and the courage to start changing yourself. The triumph of the true man emerges…
That is not a Neruda poem. It is apocryphal. Pablo,ever the communist, would have never written such a piece of libertarian crap.I am surprised that such a fan of Neruda as you claim to be did not notice that.
Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help
#233I have also experience close to burnout and recovered multiple times, in the process I have lost very precious relationships, and entire years were spent in darkness. I also have friends who have been in tech for close to ten years, and are close to burning out though they would never admit to such. This is the nature of the beast, all things that appear glamorous on the outside ( Hollywood, Finance, Tech, many nonpr…
All accurate and objective and good for everyone to know early rather than late. Moving a bit further from the specifics, it's worth noting that this is not a natural state of affairs. Humans evolved to be in groups of about 30-100 people who they knew their whole lives and thus making catastrophic deception nearly impossible. Likewise vast sums of wealth did not exist nor total social and fiscal isolation surrounded…
1) The reality is you need to find validation and fulfilment outside of work, because in our current society you are just a drone.
2) Don't be depressed because it seems like this is how it's always been. It hasn't. Our work culture is broken. People never used to be so far removed from their work. Trying to combine work and life is a natural thing, because people used to be tied up in it. Working the land, being close to home, running a family business, belonging to a small town of people you all known, having the social safety net of many people that are close to you and your family, being an independent contributor in the town's economy, etc. etc. This is how things were a few hundred years ago. Yes, there was less high tech gadgetry. There were corrupt officials, plagues, bad people. There will always be some element of this.
I really get the sense that so much of the first world's unhappiness right now is due to compartmentalising (the containerising if you like) of our lives. The solution to burnout at work is to create greater separation between work and home. But the problem itself is that we even need to do this. People can't live to enjoy what they do any more. You need to trade the majority of your waking hours for money you need to live. And when you do live, you're dreading returning to work and feeling burnout anyway. How depressing.
This is why the working-from-home trend that I hope COVID will kick-off is going to be a good thing. While we may still be working for the same companies, having a tighter integration between work and home is actually good for our mental health. Issues will be resolved faster. Nobody wants to be constantly angry in their own home. So if you're angry all the time while WFH, maybe you'll be more likely to look elsewhere. Taking breaks from work while at home is so much more refreshing. I can't think of anything more depressing that spending my lunch break in a work cafe with people I don't want to talk to, being flooded with fluorescent light, and thinking about how the rest of my working life will be spent in places like this.
Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help
#234Any Tech Giant office is going to be an absolutely miserable working environment. I had one interview with a larger company and I was struck by how openly bored my interviewers were. Obviously, YMMV and some places may be better than others. But having enough friends, even newly minted college graduates with a "six figs or bust", burn out after 6 months in a development role, it was enough to pretty much convince me to avoid them forever.
Furthermore, the "unicorn" startup is going to be extremely similar to a tech giant but with more desperation. You're joining a team of people who, in all likelihood, have very little attachment to the product and have read a few HN articles about how this is going to be the next big thing. Plus you have the young, fratty egos in play. A lot of these places are going to cover up the fact that it actually sucks to work there with "hey free keg at lunch!! haha don't have more than four ;)"
This might be too hot of a take for HN, but there is, in fact, NO job that you can work at and be valued as a person. You're appreciated for whatever value you bring into the company, but don't fool yourself into thinking that there is anything but a monetary string tying you together. You're not looking at anything wrong, you don't need an attitude shift, the system is broken from the ground up and we're forced to be participants, otherwise we won't make rent.
Find something you don't mind doing; I'd recommend looking at smaller companies with leaders who worked a long time at larger companies. In all likelihood, these companies were founded after the leaders experienced something similar to what you did. But it is your birthright as an American (citizen at least) to be perpetually unfulfilled.
Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help
#235They are suckers. Wait til they realize that they wasted their time building someone else's wealth instead of their own.
That's the sales pitch. That's what I believed when I joined the world of technology. And I felt sorry for them. I have the impression that you felt that at some point. No one else has your passion. I was lucky that reality quickly came to slap me on the face.
I co-founded a company with 4 other people and we were living the life. We were featured in techcrunch, investors lined up to throw money at us, we had a celebrity hanging with us. The paparazzi were never too far. But then, we worked together.
I realized I couldn't work with the CEO. Every other word he used was Hunger, passion, success, haters. I dropped those words from my vocabulary. He believed what I believe to the extreme. It was unpleasant to see it with my own eyes.
When our finances met reality, the clashes begun. I paid our office rent for a little while until I saw that it was in vain. Rather than go through my savings, I asked everyone to get a job until we can weather this downturn. Two people did. The other two threw my own words back at me. I lacked the passion and hunger for being in a start up. I stopped paying rent.
Long story short, it's been 2 years since the landlord changed the locks in the office and the CTO, who was secretly living there, has been kicked out. He has been homeless ever since. He has all the talent in the world, but he would not get a job and sit next to those suckers again.
Completely buying into the startup story does more harm then good. The first thing to remember is that when you have your own company, you'll have to hire employees. And no one can have the "passion" of the founders. The second thing, is that thinking that employees are suckers, gives you mentality of superiority. You feel above others, and end up being an unpleasant person to work with.
There is nothing wrong with being an employee who gets paid to solve a problem. In fact, it's the most important thing in a company. An employee that solves problems then disappears until the next day.
Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help
#236You can hear a lot of young talented and passionated going deep and hard into what they love. But it seems that successful or not, there are some bits that are important in a normal life that intense personal pursuit wont provibe. Stability, belonging to a group come to mind. Even though in many jobs colleagues come and go, when you have a stable job with people you get to know, it's a plus.
I also wonder if it's not partly a personality trait. Or at least a temporary space into ones life.
Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help
#237Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's how I read it too. I've recently started doing that and it's been a breath of fresh air. I don't really like the stuff I work with, which is services. I think I've become good at it given the feedback I get from my peers every review cycle, but I really don't like it. I felt burned out for a long time because of that. Recently I've simply been doing what I'm interested in, in my spare time. That's learning abo…
It's hard to do just the fun stuff because that's not what makes good software. It's the unit tests and pull reviews and such that make the software reliable and covering all the niggling edge cases. And that ultimately is what makes a piece of software good.
I was drawn to software at a time when it seemed like we had control over things. With the advent of the cloud I feel like that control keeps slipping away more and more. Kubernetes is my new nemesis. I seem to be in the minority that perceives it as unnecessarily complex for most tasks. Someone once commented here on HN that the k8s trend made them think people are trying to pretend their code doesn’t run on hardware anymore, and that really resonated with me.
Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help
#238Earlier quoted context omitted.
I was shocked at the beginning of the lockdown in Silicon Valley how many colleagues immediately went to a dark place because they had virtually no support structure, social interaction, or even sense of identity outside of their in-person workplace associations. Granted, a lot of in-person socialization out of the office is also off-the-table, but that's not the problem I heard from people. It's not healthy to live…
It's understandable. Look at pre 2012 SV. All the ping-pong tables, all the beanbag chairs, the free beer, the free laundry, the sleep-pods, the cafeterias, etc. 'Cynical' people thought that these accruements were meant to keep you there and working all the time. People got rid of their apartments, set up Winnebagos in the parking lot. Intents do matter, but still, if you were that kind of person, the one that thoug…
Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help
#239I have also experience close to burnout and recovered multiple times, in the process I have lost very precious relationships, and entire years were spent in darkness. I also have friends who have been in tech for close to ten years, and are close to burning out though they would never admit to such. This is the nature of the beast, all things that appear glamorous on the outside ( Hollywood, Finance, Tech, many nonpr…
For what is worth, "there's the product you produce to trade time for money, and then there's you" is precisely what alienation from labor feels like, and you're advocating that one must just accept it. People have a deep need to relate as full human beings to their work. Trying to be content with finding self-worth only outside of work doesn't solve burnout. Work is a big chunk of our time and energy. Humans need to…
Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help
#240I'm having similar issues, and i think i found a way out: stop playing their game. Don't make enterprise software. Don't write unit tests. Don't accept pull requests. Simply write software for yourself and have fun doing it. Forget refactoring code into modules, just fucking code. Don't worry about deployment with k8s, just copy the Python script to your production folder and run it. Fuck all that shit about git bran…
This is a great point, laced with justified indignation. As a graybeard, I've seen multiple generations of "how to do software" and the most recent are the least fun. A lot of this is driven by the agile approach. It's tailor-made for dev burnout: from the endless tight cycles that force people into an infinite loop of productivity with scant satisfaction that comes with "completion", to all of the tools and philosop…
A lot of the comments in this thread are pretty funny to me. CI systems are awesome when they are working. It is a real pain in the ass not knowing when something is broken or not being able to find out when it broke.
Similarly, writing good tests is really helpful for me. I do this even on my own personal projects.
These things are so helpful to me that these comments are like reading about people who hate source control.