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Bye, Amazon

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Re: Bye, Amazon

#911

Post by mrslave »

brodouevencode wrote: post #626
jillesvangurp wrote: post #122

It's a wake up call, or at least an attempt at that, for the likes of Amazon that if they are looking to have reputable people, like Tim Bray, associate themselves and their name with you, there are certain standards that have to be met. Amazon, MS, Google, Apple, etc. rank among the most wealthy companies in the world and they've each had to deal with internal pressures where their employees voiced concerns about ce…

> IMHO firing whistle blowers is the kind of action that should be called out as very negative and not something to be apologetic about. Agree 100%. Daylight is the best disinfectant, especially in publicly traded companies. Every CEO, CMO, etc loves white-knighting ("We care about the environment/our employees!") until the shareholders start calling. Then they're the first to start covering up problems. That's not t…

> Daylight is the best disinfectant

Shame about all the deplatforming then

Re: Bye, Amazon

#912

Post by kjgkjhfkjf »

I don't mean to rag specifically on Tim here, but most posts like this one probably should not be taken entirely at face value. My guess is that he left Amazon mostly for other more mundane reasons, and he used the well-known issues with how Amazon treat their workers as a means to exit in a blaze of righteous glory.

Re: Bye, Amazon

#914

Post by chipotle_coyote »

product50 wrote: post #754
60secz wrote: post #659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* cough * It goes on to give tips to managers for spotting union activity. “Make it a point to regularly talk to associates in the break room. This will help protect you from accusations that you were only in the break room to spy on pro union associates,” the video says. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/22/how-amazon-is-fighting-back-... On internal company email lists and chat groups on Thursday and Friday that Recode…

Stop quoting Vox as if they are a reliable news source. They are the ones who mocked tech workers initially for taking COVID seriously: https://www.vox.com/recode/2020/2/13/21128209/coronavirus-fe...

At risk at piling on to something that's already being downvoted, this is an extremely facile take. Nothing in the article you linked was "mocking" tech workers for being worried in mid-February. The word you are looking for is "reporting" on that situation, and also including in that report that officials at that time, in mid-February, said that while there was "always a risk" that these fears were likely overblown. Dragging Vox for accurately reporting what many experts said at the time is dragging them for not being prescient enough to know that the experts were wrong. And to top it all off, that's something that Vox is actively concerned about, given that the last episode of the Ezra Klein Show was a conversation with NYT writer Charlie Warzel about the media's response to the pandemic and how difficult it is to handle this sort of situation.

Re: Bye, Amazon

#915

Post by WolfeReader »

kjgkjhfkjf wrote: post #912

I don't mean to rag specifically on Tim here, but most posts like this one probably should not be taken entirely at face value. My guess is that he left Amazon mostly for other more mundane reasons, and he used the well-known issues with how Amazon treat their workers as a means to exit in a blaze of righteous glory.

Do you have any evidence of these more mundane reasons? Otherwise, you're just speculating. And since Bray did a very good job of linking to sources for his stated reasons, I'm inclined to take his claims seriously at least until other evidence indicates otherwise.

(On the other hand, I highly suspect that you yourself have "other" reasons to cast doubt on Bray's claims. I have as much reason to doubt your motives as you do to doubt Bray's, right?)

Re: Bye, Amazon

#916

Post by smoe »

jmcqk6 wrote: post #892
smoe wrote: post #863

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always think it is a bit odd when a company wins a case like this, but then people blame the company, not the court or the law. Not saying, that you don't disagree with the courts decisions, but I keep getting this feeling especially from the US. Why do people realistically expect a company to not stretch things as far as legally possible? I get why libertarians would see it this way, but everyone else?

>Why do people realistically expect a company to not stretch things as far as legally possible? Because doing the right thing is different from doing the legal thing. If you're only interested in maximizing your profits under the umbrella of law, you are, by definition, not interested in acting morally. Which means you're probably doing many things that many people would consider immoral. It's a mismatch of motivatio…

If the law sufficiently formalizes and enforces a societies moral compass, acting under its umbrella would be, by definition, moral.

Re: Bye, Amazon

#917

Post by oppositelock »

zach_garwood wrote: post #867
oppositelock wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can confirm this, having first hand experience with it. We hired many low-skill workers at a big tech company that you've heard of about ten years ago. These workers received a couple of weeks of training, and then were set to do a rather simple, menial, repetitive job. These workers didn't sell products, but did very low level tech work, but the entire operation was mired in drama. For example, we had a strict no…

I'm curious why you believe this type of behavior is only found in "disadvantaged" workers. In my brief career, I've encountered several white collar workers drinking alcohol and smoking cannabis on the job, and I even stumbled across a lawyer doing cocaine in a bathroom. I've seen desk workers get canned for bringing knives to work and leaving guns in their car. I've known office workers who have stolen both time an…

I never said it's found only in those workers, my experience happens to be with workers who come from the more disadvantaged strata of society. You find many, wonderful people with a strong work ethic among them, but the rough living part is much more rough and visible - like doing heroin at work or pulling out a gun. This happens in all echelons of society, but it's just much less subtle in certain groups of people. On the upside, the people with good work ethic were promoted, got raises, and better benefits.

Re: Bye, Amazon

#918

Post by kjgkjhfkjf »

WolfeReader wrote: post #915
kjgkjhfkjf wrote: post #912

I don't mean to rag specifically on Tim here, but most posts like this one probably should not be taken entirely at face value. My guess is that he left Amazon mostly for other more mundane reasons, and he used the well-known issues with how Amazon treat their workers as a means to exit in a blaze of righteous glory.

Do you have any evidence of these more mundane reasons? Otherwise, you're just speculating. And since Bray did a very good job of linking to sources for his stated reasons, I'm inclined to take his claims seriously at least until other evidence indicates otherwise. (On the other hand, I highly suspect that you yourself have "other" reasons to cast doubt on Bray's claims. I have as much reason to doubt your motives as…

Is it not clear that I was speculating from language like "my guess is", and is it not clear that I'm not trying to cast aspersions on Tim's specific motives from language like "I don't mean to rag specifically on Tim"?

Re: Bye, Amazon

#919

Post by carti »

uoaei wrote: post #906
carti wrote: post #900

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"There's no such thing as ethical consumption under capitalism" comes to mind. Even if some folks are in a position to spend all of their money in ways that align with their values (which seems impossible given the extent of global supply chains), it's out of reach for the vast majority until systemic change is realized.

Very true. But it's necessary to make the first point explicit so that we can make the jump from "citizens, vote with your wallet" to "citizens, ensure that the government only deploys capital in ways you agree with".

Totally agree. Realized my earlier comment could be read as suggesting inaction or complacency, which wasn't the point I was trying to make at all. Everyone should be acting with their wallet where and when they can and pushing corporations to behave ethically while keeping in mind the sort of behaviors encouraged by the larger structures at play.

Re: Bye, Amazon

#920

Post by [deleted] »

throwaway08320 wrote: post #388
artsyca wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhere between university and the present day we went from being idealistic to realistic to defeatist and the tone of this conversation stinks of pre-covid stereotypes let me guess you enjoy the free coffee and casual culture too much to walk away from a neo-fascist dictatorship with corporate characteristics or maybe you're mortgaged up to your eyeballs Edit: don't you think some liberal leaning corporate behemot…

> neo-fascist dictatorship with corporate characteristics > Listen every large organization becomes a leftist surveillance state You seem very confused.

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