Live data from Hacker News

Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

reuters.com

91–100 of 568 posts

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The analogy seems apt; weapons dealers don't give warlords armies (if they did, they'd be called mercenaries.) They give the armies of warlords the tools they need to be more effective. The violent acts, killing people or holding PII, are still performed by the warlord's organization, but does that excuse the people selling the tools used?

I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree. I just don’t think that complaining about a tech company when what you actually dislike is what governments or other organizations are doing is going to impact anything. But Palantir has been the “tech boogieman” since before I even left in 2014, so it probably always will be. It is admittedly easier to blame a smaller tech company as a scapegoat than try to address the l…

> It is admittedly easier to blame a smaller tech company as a scapegoat than try to address the larger governmental or organizational actors that you actually have grievances against.

Or you can do both. You might as well suppose that people are critical of the mercenary company Blackwater because they want to avoid criticizing America foreign policy and military exploits. I don't think that's accurate at all, it's been my experience that people who are critical of one are very often critical of the other as well.

Similarly, it's been my experience that people critical of Palintar are also critical of the organizations and governments who use the services of Palintar.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#92
Can anyone show me an app in the wild that uses Bluetooth like or close to what the Covid apps wants to?

Why isn't HN talking about the technical side at all?

We know Bluetooth on phones can't do what the governments says it can.

We've all gone through the stage of, what if we used Bluetooth to track people indoors and do cool stuff! Then we realise you can't. The best we see is advertising maybe doing low quality beacons.

It like we think C19 makes the impossible possible.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#93
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having worked at Palantir, I’m curious which outdated misconceptions you’re still harboring? It’s a giant federated search engine... that’s about it. They don’t even hold any data themselves, it all stays on site with the customer.

I'll use an analogy: they might not be the warlords, but they are the weapon traffickers.

I interned in St. Louis one summer and my neighbor worked at Boeing. The only reason I remember him to this day is because he introduced himself as a programmer working on smart bombs. He immediately said it was okay because he didn't fire the bombs, he just made them smarter so they didn't kill innocent people.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contact tracing is a wet dream for five-eyes. I don't even think it will even be effective given the anticipated number of cases.

Stop spreading FUD. Governments have had access to your location and associates for decades via the mobile phone network. I've worked at a telco where we were analysing customer's behaviours and almost everyone follows a pattern at some point e.g. going from home, via public transport to work. The resolution isn't high but over time you build up enough samples to accurately determine exactly where they live, work etc…

> Stop spreading FUD. Governments have had access to your location and associates for decades via the mobile phone network.

In that case the governments do not need this silly contact tracing app. They can just use the data they already have.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#95
post #74
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple logs location history? Other than the wifi location log from ios4 and the significant locations feature (opt in, device only), I don't know how apple is logging locations.

On your iPhone you can go to Settings -> Privacy -> Location Services -> System Services -> Significant Locations and you will see that Apple does keep track of at least some of your location history and tries to analyze it if you don't actively turn it off.

Not true. The iOS location history is encrypted and stored in your iCloud account with a key that never leaves your device. So it's quite different from Google's Location History: Apple stores it, but they cannot read it.

And if you disable iCloud, the data remains exclusively on your device.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#96
post #69

Google have flat out banned any apps that have anything to do with combating COVID-19 if they aren't either funded by their government or are a registered health company. I tried releasing a symptom tracker app before Zoe released theirs and it was rejected for this reason.

They will ban and flag your account if your app just mentions the word Covid. It is absolutely absurd. Only Google is allowed to make a Covid app.

With the sheer amount of scam, privacy invading apps that are preying on people’s fear, can you blame them?

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#97
post #12

Does anyone else find this a little ironic given Google is a company that has been logging peoples location to a very fine detail for years

And we'll see how this plays out, perhaps it will be tragically ironic. The majority of people don't ever think about this and are happy to give their location info to Google constantly all day long. This protocol is in almost all ways much less intrusive and more protective of privacy, and the upside for society is potentially high. It should be a complete no-brainer that everyone who is ok using google or apple map…

It all seemed so innocent and helpful a decade ago...

Free GPS and navigation services have a price. I doubt many people are going back to Garmin anytime soon. Just the way it is now.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#98
post #74
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple logs location history? Other than the wifi location log from ios4 and the significant locations feature (opt in, device only), I don't know how apple is logging locations.

On your iPhone you can go to Settings -> Privacy -> Location Services -> System Services -> Significant Locations and you will see that Apple does keep track of at least some of your location history and tries to analyze it if you don't actively turn it off.

[deleted]

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contact tracing is a wet dream for five-eyes. I don't even think it will even be effective given the anticipated number of cases.

This is of little interest to 5-eyes. For a start, installation of the app is voluntary so if you're planning something you really don't want the government to discover, you wouldn't install it. Also, intelligence services already get call metadata so they know which mobile towers you are using and probably lots else. As for effectiveness, I think it will be useful. There have been several papers crunching the number…

They mentioned a few weeks back that the end goal would be if you had the app it could act as a virtual health passport and you’d be allowed to go out shopping, go to work and the pub, etc. And without it? Stay at home. So yeah, technically voluntary, but, y‘know...

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#100
post #95
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On your iPhone you can go to Settings -> Privacy -> Location Services -> System Services -> Significant Locations and you will see that Apple does keep track of at least some of your location history and tries to analyze it if you don't actively turn it off.

Not true. The iOS location history is encrypted and stored in your iCloud account with a key that never leaves your device. So it's quite different from Google's Location History: Apple stores it, but they cannot read it. And if you disable iCloud, the data remains exclusively on your device.

That iCloud key only prevents man in the middle attacks. You can still use the key to decrypt the data at rest in the cloud servers, and Apple stores both.

And if you're in China, Apple stores both on Chinese government owned servers: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/02/5-things-you-...

Post reply on HN