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Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

reuters.com

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Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#61

Post by ivarojha »

karambir wrote: post #9

Will be interesting to see if they can ban Indian govt. app[1] which needs full location access(clarified)[3]. A lot of people like this app(including me) but also know government does not have good track record in securing private data. Previously Apple were made to bend their rules when India threatened to ban Apple devices if they don't allow TRAI Do Not Disturb app in 2018.[2] [1] https://play.google.com/store/ap…

Not sure about Android, but if you're on iOS you have the choice to disable "full location access". In case it's needed to run certain feature in the app, you can choose the "Allow while using" option.

I do that will all the apps that require location access: local food delivery, cab services, vehicle rental and what not.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#62

Post by threeseed »

dkdk8283 wrote: post #20
AJRF wrote: post #3

I've been wondering about the UK contact tracing app because they seem to be deliberately misleading saying that data is secure on the phone, yet it's a centralised model, and they are using bullshit terms like "clinically secure algorithm" to describe the one-time codes; Is the source code of these apps something that could be FOI requested from NHSx seeing as it is publicly funded by the tax payer? Also they've alr…

Contact tracing is a wet dream for five-eyes. I don't even think it will even be effective given the anticipated number of cases.

Stop spreading FUD. Governments have had access to your location and associates for decades via the mobile phone network.

I've worked at a telco where we were analysing customer's behaviours and almost everyone follows a pattern at some point e.g. going from home, via public transport to work. The resolution isn't high but over time you build up enough samples to accurately determine exactly where they live, work etc.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#63

Post by taywrobel »

SSLy wrote: post #53
taywrobel wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having worked at Palantir, I’m curious which outdated misconceptions you’re still harboring? It’s a giant federated search engine... that’s about it. They don’t even hold any data themselves, it all stays on site with the customer.

I'll use an analogy: they might not be the warlords, but they are the weapon traffickers.

I disagree with that analogy. Palantir isn’t getting them more data. It’s helping them use it more effectively. The organizations already have all the data recorded.

If you don’t like the data that organizations record, I’m right there with you, but demonizing the tools that allow them to access data more effectively is an absurd stance to take. Their system also does things like add an immutable audit log, or enforce requirements on how data can be accessed.

Working with law enforcement, before Palantir there was nothing preventing an officer from looking up their ex husband or wife, or celebrities, or anyone at random. With it, there’s an audit trail of every search, and most of them need a case number as justification. Even then, certain searches would automatically get flagged for review.

We can go back to giving people direct and unaudited SQL access if you’d like, but I’d prefer some more accountability, even if the downside is organizations being able to use data _they already have_ more effectively.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#64

Post by taywrobel »

GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #55
taywrobel wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having worked at Palantir, I’m curious which outdated misconceptions you’re still harboring? It’s a giant federated search engine... that’s about it. They don’t even hold any data themselves, it all stays on site with the customer.

They create tools that enable the government to infringe on the privacy rights of their citizens

I could argue the exact same about literally any database used by the government. Their tools are just easier to use and more expressive.

If you don’t like the bullshit the government does, that seems like an issue you should take up with the government, no? You’re using a tech company as a scapegoat.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#65

Post by catalogia »

taywrobel wrote: post #63
SSLy wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll use an analogy: they might not be the warlords, but they are the weapon traffickers.

I disagree with that analogy. Palantir isn’t getting them more data. It’s helping them use it more effectively. The organizations already have all the data recorded. If you don’t like the data that organizations record, I’m right there with you, but demonizing the tools that allow them to access data more effectively is an absurd stance to take. Their system also does things like add an immutable audit log, or enforc…

The analogy seems apt; weapons dealers don't give warlords armies (if they did, they'd be called mercenaries.) They give the armies of warlords the tools they need to be more effective. The violent acts, killing people or holding PII, are still performed by the warlord's organization, but does that excuse the people selling the tools used?

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#67

Post by [deleted] »

taywrobel wrote: post #63
SSLy wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll use an analogy: they might not be the warlords, but they are the weapon traffickers.

I disagree with that analogy. Palantir isn’t getting them more data. It’s helping them use it more effectively. The organizations already have all the data recorded. If you don’t like the data that organizations record, I’m right there with you, but demonizing the tools that allow them to access data more effectively is an absurd stance to take. Their system also does things like add an immutable audit log, or enforc…

[deleted]

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#68

Post by cc81 »

threeseed wrote: post #62
dkdk8283 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contact tracing is a wet dream for five-eyes. I don't even think it will even be effective given the anticipated number of cases.

Stop spreading FUD. Governments have had access to your location and associates for decades via the mobile phone network. I've worked at a telco where we were analysing customer's behaviours and almost everyone follows a pattern at some point e.g. going from home, via public transport to work. The resolution isn't high but over time you build up enough samples to accurately determine exactly where they live, work etc…

Yeah, but that is a small part of contact tracing (with law changes needed in some countries). The next step is to have personnel to notify suspected contacts, tell them to isolate themselves and then test them.

You need to have enough people for that, you need to have the testing capacity and you need to have people following that order.

It will work well if you have very low community spread and can start tracing on cluster level. If you are not there it can still be a good tool but you would probably still need a lot of other restrictions as well.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#69

Post by cwhiz »

xkyscore wrote: post #16

Google have flat out banned any apps that have anything to do with combating COVID-19 if they aren't either funded by their government or are a registered health company. I tried releasing a symptom tracker app before Zoe released theirs and it was rejected for this reason.

They will ban and flag your account if your app just mentions the word Covid. It is absolutely absurd. Only Google is allowed to make a Covid app.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#70

Post by jvehent »

taywrobel wrote: post #63
SSLy wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll use an analogy: they might not be the warlords, but they are the weapon traffickers.

I disagree with that analogy. Palantir isn’t getting them more data. It’s helping them use it more effectively. The organizations already have all the data recorded. If you don’t like the data that organizations record, I’m right there with you, but demonizing the tools that allow them to access data more effectively is an absurd stance to take. Their system also does things like add an immutable audit log, or enforc…

So governments already have all the potassium nitrate, Palantir is just helping them make bullets?
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