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Xcode now costs US$ 4.99

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Re: Xcode now costs US$ 4.99

#271

Post by [deleted] »

rbanffy wrote: post #86
kprobst wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are vast numbers of young people out there that either don't have $5 or have no way to pay for something online even if they had the money. The potential pool of software developers isn't (and shouldn't be) limited to the US and Europe.

Kids in places where the App Store doesn't reach still can buy Macs from channels other than Apple, they can buy and borrow books and teach each other. They can't download Xcode 4 unless they have an account with Apple, a valid credit card (issued in the right country) or a couple of iTunes gift cards. This is a step in the wrong direction.

[deleted]

Re: Xcode now costs US$ 4.99

#272

Post by ryanpetrich »

A1kmm wrote: post #240
jws wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fortunately Homebrew and MacPorts can just ship a gcc and get on with things.

You can compile, but you can't link with the standard GNU toolchain to get a usable library (at least last I heard), because binutils simply doesn't support the Mach-O format (see http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2009-09/msg00121.html ).

Their linker is open source: http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/ld64/

Re: Xcode now costs US$ 4.99

#273

Post by Naga »

CJefferson wrote: post #183
Tycho wrote: post #159

I don't see how people can complain XCode 4 (with IntelliSense!!) for $4.99 is disrespectful. Sure it's not as generous as free, but it's still pretty damn good value. A lot of people will probably buy it now for the Intellisense (or 'Codesense') functionality, who otherwise wouldn't have much cared.

People aren't complaining about XCode costing money. The problem is more that up until now, XCode has been the only way of getting a C and C++ compiler.

An open source compiler, too. Right now OS X doesn't ship with a compiler, so while the source of the compiler is available, there is no way to compile it without Xcode installed.

Re: Xcode now costs US$ 4.99

#274

Post by mbateman »

masklinn wrote: post #198
ori_b wrote: post #15

This is somewhat strange pricing - it seems ridiculously cheap if they're trying to make significant profits off of it, but pricey enough to prevent tinkerers who don't really know about coding but feel like trying it from getting a start in xcode.

According to the LLVM lead dev (Chris Lattner on IRC), this is due to Apple's accountant's interpretation of SOX (Xcode 4 is too different from Xcode 3 to be considered an update, they see it as a new product): > it is due to some bizarro accounting rule. xcode4 is sufficiently new that it doesn't count as a free update or something. paid adc members should get free access. yeah, clearly we're trying to monetize it..…

It's SOX that's "weird", to put it mildly. I don't blame Apple for being paranoid about it.

Re: Xcode now costs US$ 4.99

#275

Post by dubious_1 »

You do not need to update to XCode 4.0 to develop for either OSX or iOS (even 4.3 SDK is available for XCode 3.2.6). There may be some great new wistles and bells in XCode 4.0, but it is not essential. For a hobbyist learning OSX or IOS development, it is probably better to wait anyway since all of the existing tutorials, Courses and books are still focused on XCode 3, and changing the IDE this much will probably just confuse.

Re: Xcode now costs US$ 4.99

#276

Post by lmz »

glesperance wrote: post #223
Jgrubb wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What got me into programming in the first place was that XCode was free. I just don't get why you'd charge this small an amount for something that you have to buy a thousand dollar computer from them to run it on. It's hard to see this as anything but a tiny little insult.

I guess your comparison between the Xcode price and the one of the apple computer on which it runs is legitimate. The problem here is not the cost of the package in itself -- it is indeed cheap in comparison to the aforementioned computer -- but in the fact that apple chose not to include this cost _in_ the retail price of OSX. All the bruden is dropped on the devs who then needs to re-sell their apps, generally on t…

Come on. Let's not assume too much here. If what is said is correct, that this pricing is because of the accounting rules, then the cost of OS X 10.5 and 10.6 includes XCode 3. XCode 4 will be included in the cost of OS X 10.7.

Re: Xcode now costs US$ 4.99

#277

Post by tedunangst »

rbanffy wrote: post #227
tedunangst wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$0.99 is too cheap to convince a regulator that it's the true value of the software?

Seriously, whatever magic their accountants may have to do to make a free add-on to an OS they sell remain free, it's worth to reduce the friction for new OSX developers. Remember what Visual Basic did for Windows: it killed DOS development in a couple months. Having a very simple IDE any corporate drone can use to make good-looking applications would drive a lot of acceptance for Mac in medium businesses.

I think that magic may be "upgrade to Lion".

Re: Xcode now costs US$ 4.99

#278

Post by nitrogen »

mechanical_fish wrote: post #206
rbanffy wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eclipse: $0 NetBeans: $0 DevShed C++: $0 Emacs: $0 The complete GNU compiler collection: $0 Xcode 3: $0

I love emacs and use it every day. And I'm glad that it's free software. But if Apple offered to keep my Mac's emacs install up to date for $4.99 I would pay in a heartbeat. I have to periodically check whether my version is out of date. When it is, I have to find the download URL, click on it, remember to come back when the package has downloaded, and run the installer. I have to do this on all of my machines. Sure,…

Just curious, I'm assuming that switching to Linux to get automatic updates for all packages would cost you more than $5 in pain in other areas. Is that assumption correct?

Re: Xcode now costs US$ 4.99

#279

Post by jamroom »

zcid wrote: post #94
kylelibra wrote: post #2

For the convenience of being able to download Xcode through the mac store and get the updates automatically, I'll gladly pay $4.99.

Updates have always been automatic through Software Update. I have never manually downloaded an update for Xcode. I have been a staunch Apple supporter for years, but lately their anti-hacker stance has become more and more obvious. If you aren't making them money through their store, then fuck off. This token charge for Xcode isn't for profit; it's a message to a certain group saying "You aren't wanted here anymore.…

In over 2 years I've never once seen Xcode update through Software Update - is there a secret setting somewhere to enable it? I'm ready to plunk down the $4.99 just to get the automatic update in the App store. Thanks!

Re: Xcode now costs US$ 4.99

#280

Post by kjksf »

jarin wrote: post #226
stcredzero wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And while, $5 is still well within the average teenagers reach, it's still a lot more friction than free. Smalltalk companies did this to themselves, but with a smaller userbase and bigger fees. (Which is worse in both dimensions!) With $5000 seats, the friction was hella high. Then Java came along with tools that weren't 100th as cool, but which were frictionless and free. It's kinda the playbook for being a superio…

Great, so all someone needs to do is make a decent Cocoa IDE (don't forget Instruments and an iOS simulator!) and give it away for free. Problem solved.

Yes, the solution to you not willing to pay $5 is for someone else to invest hundrends of thousands of dollars (at programmer's market pay) to re-implement XCode.

I do develop open-source software (SumatraPDF) and give it away for free, but this kind of attitude of entitlement always gets me.

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