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Amazon locks down internal employee communications amid organizing efforts

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Re: Amazon locks down internal employee communications amid organizing efforts

#101
post #3

tl;dr: Email lists with 500+ people must be moderated and have a manager moderate them. (It's unclear if manager means 'manages employees' or 'manages email list'.) This seems pretty draconian to me, if it's true.

Not really. Big email lists like that generate tons of spam. What Amazon is doing is presumably to block unionization efforts, but, frankly, what's surprising is that they didn't have a control like this in place already. I work for a much smaller company than Amazon (without a chance of a union ever forming) and we don't let just anyone blast out emails to hundreds of people. We used to and it drove everyone nuts. People were selling their event tickets, giving traffic updates, offering up pets for adoption, etc. It's ridiculous. We had one list that was generating 100+ emails a day that were irrelevant to most of the people on the list. Every sizable list has an "owner" who controls access to send to the list. We have other channels like an area on the intranet where people can post these broadcast kinds of messages so it won't clog up people's inboxes. I thought most large companies did this.

Re: Amazon locks down internal employee communications amid organizing efforts

#102
post #78
post #60

Some comments here really had me scratching my head. Remember, it's not just engineers, code monkeys and managers at Amazon. The majority of their employees are unskilled labour. Warehouse workers and delivery drivers. An Amazon warehouse worker in Canada makes just a little more than minimum wage. Even if it might be a nice company to work for if you're in an office, it may be a very different reality for the majori…

>The majority of their employees are unskilled labour. I've never really liked "skilled" and "unskilled" label classifiers because it implies a relationship between compensation and skill. I'm aware you didn't say this but I see it far too often. I've seen a lot of fairly low compensated work that I know for a fact I can't do. We need to stop dehumanizing people with 'skilled' and 'unskilled' labor. A lot of it just…

Amazon also encourages some of this. Recent radio ads in this region include, as close to word for word as possible.

"We are now hiring for X. [Insert some pay, benefit information here]. Apply online. No interview required. Start tomorrow/this week."

At that point, you really are looking at 'unskilled' or at least 'not specifically skilled'.

Re: Amazon locks down internal employee communications amid organizing efforts

#103

Here is the page to cancel your Amazon Prime membership: https://www.amazon.com/mc/pipelines/cancellation

If you are not happy with the way amazon treats it's warehouse workers, you should work to get the law changed, benefiting workers at big and small organisations across lots of jobs. Targeting Amazon just because it's a household brand simply makes an uneven labor playing field - sure, amazon workers might get paid better after your protest, but J J Doe and Sons Glassworkers won't change their ways. Nor will the no-n…

I won't criticize anybodies decision to keep shopping at amazon for this reason, it is very difficult to ethically consume in our current environment.

However, for me, I realized that

1) I am fortunate enough that saving fractions of my order will not make a material difference to me (the amazon cancellation page informed me that i had saved 140 dollars in shipping using prime over the last year)

2) In the current environment, supporting local and/or smaller businesses is more important to me than saving a day of shipping time, or 10% off my order

3) Even if your alternative retailer is equally unscrupulous to its warehouse employees, for instance, a shipper that uses UPS, which is unionized labor with benefits, as opposed to amazon's own courier service which is contract labor with no benefits, can be a meaningful difference.

For me, the above 3 made me realize that I could do without amazon prime despite being a prime member for 10 plus years. For household staples, I am a costco member, and I feel much better about costco's relationship with their employees than amazons. For other purchases, it makes sense for me to consider local alternatives. And I can always use amazon if I need to, I'll just pay shipping.

Re: Amazon locks down internal employee communications amid organizing efforts

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The top-voted comment on your thread suggests otherwise. I think the workers should be receiving more in hazard pay, but this whole round of controversy was sparked by their firing warehouse workers organizing for better safety, not pay. Where do you work, BTW? Your account is about a month old and only seems to comment on stories about Amazon.

The "top-voted comment" anywhere has no bearing on what is or is not the majority argument.

You made an explicit appeal to the majority of arguments on this forum as referencing pay, I provided a specific counterexample, and you rebutted with more vagaries.

Re: Amazon locks down internal employee communications amid organizing efforts

#106
> Internal listservs with more than 500 participants are now required to move to a moderated model where a manager must approve any content before its distribution, according to emails obtained by Recode.

Google did a similar thing in November [1]. This is starting to feel like a trend for tech companies reaching a certain level of size/maturity.

Now this may be a contrarian opinion, but I actually think this has the potential to be a good thing if you're on the side of workers. Here's why.

If you're organizing a union, trying to reveal "evil" projects, or otherwise trying to be a force for good in the company, as long as you're doing it on internal message boards everyone's still halfway-careful of what they say, and big movements/protests are less likely to happen.

But by shutting them down or forcibly moderating them, that will hopefully be enough of an impetus for employees to start using third-party forums, where they can "approve" each other through invites, and everyone can speak and organize freely (and with more anonymity if desired) and accomplish perhaps far more than they have so far.

As political scientists know, repression of citizens brings short-term stability at the cost of an increased long-term threat.

Obviously you can't know for sure... but this feels like the kind of thing that's going to backfire for Amazon (and Google), leading to more and stronger union organization, not less.

[1] https://www.financialexpress.com/industry/technology/googles...

Re: Amazon locks down internal employee communications amid organizing efforts

#107

Note: this was posted last week, and therefore not caused by a Amazon VP leaving (but perhaps could be partially a cause to the VP leaving)

Last week's post (2 comments):

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23024033

Re: Amazon locks down internal employee communications amid organizing efforts

#109

Amazon is interesting because there is a rift in the company; on one side you have upper middle class engineers, and on the other working class warehouse labourers. It's easy to dismiss union organisation coming from the former side, but the real tragedy is the thousands of workers working in dangerous conditions. They won't get their union.

One big union babyy

Re: Amazon locks down internal employee communications amid organizing efforts

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wouldn't matter. The current administration is from a party whose platform is as anti-labor as their opposition was under Woodrow Wilson. Even if we had a strong Federal government right now, it would be interested in aiding Amazon , not it's workforce. As it is I fully expect to hear talking points that "responsible" workers wouldn't strike or try to organize, or that there should be a law against unionization du…

> The current administration is from a party whose platform is as anti-labor as their opposition was under Woodrow Wilson Is that true? Increased tariffs, renegotiated trade deals (increased tariffs), attempting to tighten immigration, lowering taxes on repatriation of cash. Those are all pro worker.

Yes but all those things are also fairly safe in terms of his other demographics. Trump's brand of populism strikes me as being all about surface gestures.

Has anything he's done for workers also disadvantaged his rich donors?

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