Facing meat shortages, some Americans turn to hunting during pandemic • Hacker News Board

Re: Facing meat shortages, some Americans turn to hunting during pandemic

#41

Post by z3ugma » Mon, May 04, 2020, 1:49 PM UTC

Reason077 wrote: post #33

It's strange that meat processing facilities in the US have been hard-hit by Covid-19. These are places that have strict hygine standards during normal times, with employees wearing gloves and face masks as a matter of course. So you'd think they wouldn't be somewhere that diseases would spread easily. This has also not been a significant issue in other countries hit by Covid-19, that I'm aware of. What is it about t…

You would certainly expect that these places should have strict hygiene standards, but investigative journalists have found time and time again that slaughterhouses in the USA are filthy places where human and animal disease alike are concentrated by the time pressure to go faster, to make meat cheaper and cheaper.

Fast Food Nation (https://www.litcharts.com/lit/fast-food-nation/chapter-9-wha...) profiled this in the early aughts.

Countless other investigative journalists have tried, even against the "ag-gag" laws we have in farming states, to uncover even more in recent times:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/02/meat-plant-wor...

https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2010/05/14/probing_the_...

The consolidation of the meat industry has given them extraordinary lobbying power. They now have broad authority to regulate themselves:

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-administrations-new-hog-slaug...

Re: Facing meat shortages, some Americans turn to hunting during pandemic

#42

Post by SketchySeaBeast » Mon, May 04, 2020, 1:50 PM UTC

Reason077 wrote: post #33

It's strange that meat processing facilities in the US have been hard-hit by Covid-19. These are places that have strict hygine standards during normal times, with employees wearing gloves and face masks as a matter of course. So you'd think they wouldn't be somewhere that diseases would spread easily. This has also not been a significant issue in other countries hit by Covid-19, that I'm aware of. What is it about t…

Alberta's two largest current outbreaks are in meat processing facilities. I believe it requires extremely close quarters for long hours.

Re: Facing meat shortages, some Americans turn to hunting during pandemic

#43

Post by uhtred » Mon, May 04, 2020, 1:55 PM UTC

ndespres wrote: post #2

I think a lot of these folks underestimate what it takes to hunt an elk, field dress it, bring it back to their vehicle, and put away 300 lbs of meat. Even if you borrow a gun as one person interviewed here would, you need a truck, knives, a bone saw, camouflage, maybe a tree stand, and a large freezer, among other things. It is reasonable to hunt for food, but it's not reasonable for your typical "hospital manager"…

People could also stock up on dried beans if they are worried about future food shortages.

Re: Facing meat shortages, some Americans turn to hunting during pandemic

#44

Post by smegmasamurai » Mon, May 04, 2020, 1:58 PM UTC

ndespres wrote: post #2

I think a lot of these folks underestimate what it takes to hunt an elk, field dress it, bring it back to their vehicle, and put away 300 lbs of meat. Even if you borrow a gun as one person interviewed here would, you need a truck, knives, a bone saw, camouflage, maybe a tree stand, and a large freezer, among other things. It is reasonable to hunt for food, but it's not reasonable for your typical "hospital manager"…

around where i live most people almost certainly know someone who can help them out with all that stuff for a cut of the bounty...

Re: Facing meat shortages, some Americans turn to hunting during pandemic

#45

Post by gridlockd » Mon, May 04, 2020, 1:59 PM UTC

z3ugma wrote: post #36

This pandemic is really bringing out the folly of concentration at the expense of all other business considerations. Sure, it makes food cheaper but at what cost? We deserve systems that are more resistant to shocks. We've allowed oligopolies to form in many industries, perhaps especially agribusiness. This has brought prices to rock bottom and commoditized living beings, putting pressure to further reduce prices. "A…

> This pandemic is really bringing out the folly of concentration at the expense of all other business considerations.

I think that's just the hackers's infatuation with decentralization speaking here.

Using decentralization to prepare for a disaster that happens once every 100 years costs so much, you'll be uncompetitive 99% of the time, which means you'll likely be out of business by the time disaster strikes.

Furthermore, when it does strike, you'll probably have prepared in the wrong way because you didn't foresee everything, like the disaster affecting every decentralized place at once, as it would in a global pandemic.

Keep in mind that the meat supply hasn't been severely impacted yet, might never be, but even if it was, there would still be a grain supply that hasn't been impacted at all.

Lastly, the average American has enough fat on their body to sustain them for at least a month of eating nothing at all.

Re: Facing meat shortages, some Americans turn to hunting during pandemic

#46

Post by bobmaxup » Mon, May 04, 2020, 2:01 PM UTC

ndespres wrote: post #2

I think a lot of these folks underestimate what it takes to hunt an elk, field dress it, bring it back to their vehicle, and put away 300 lbs of meat. Even if you borrow a gun as one person interviewed here would, you need a truck, knives, a bone saw, camouflage, maybe a tree stand, and a large freezer, among other things. It is reasonable to hunt for food, but it's not reasonable for your typical "hospital manager"…

You can take a kill to a butcher. You can drag an elk out with a ATV or other means than relying on your own strength, but some can do that as well. You don't need a truck necessarily, an elk can be quartered or de-boned in the field. A bone saw is helpful, but it isn't necessary.

Millions of Americans hunt for deer and elk without a lot of the gear you list.

Hunting isn't some sacred thing that can only be accessed through special means, even though plenty of hunters frame it as such. You can pass a hunter's safety course in less than a week, while learning the basics as you go.

However, I agree with the idea that using legal hunting as a means to survive during a national food shortage is grandiose.

Re: Facing meat shortages, some Americans turn to hunting during pandemic

#47

Post by [deleted] » Mon, May 04, 2020, 2:07 PM UTC

bobmaxup wrote: post #46

ndespres wrote: post #2

I think a lot of these folks underestimate what it takes to hunt an elk, field dress it, bring it back to their vehicle, and put away 300 lbs of meat. Even if you borrow a gun as one person interviewed here would, you need a truck, knives, a bone saw, camouflage, maybe a tree stand, and a large freezer, among other things. It is reasonable to hunt for food, but it's not reasonable for your typical "hospital manager"…

You can take a kill to a butcher. You can drag an elk out with a ATV or other means than relying on your own strength, but some can do that as well. You don't need a truck necessarily, an elk can be quartered or de-boned in the field. A bone saw is helpful, but it isn't necessary. Millions of Americans hunt for deer and elk without a lot of the gear you list. Hunting isn't some sacred thing that can only be accessed…

[deleted]

Re: Facing meat shortages, some Americans turn to hunting during pandemic

#48

Post by mindcrime » Mon, May 04, 2020, 2:09 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #22

mindcrime wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anybody is proposing to replace the entire existing food supply chain with nothing but hunted deer. There is no reason however, to think that hunting can't supplement a family's food stocks if other sources start to become thin. And there's a lot more to hunt than deer. There's also more in play than hunting. A family might feed themselves through a combination of any or all of: hunting, trapping, fishi…

Again, there is every reason to believe (know) hinting/foraging is woefully inadequate. Simple numbers. Natural 'foods' are pitiful fractions of modern cultivars. It takes a quarter acre(?) of Jerusalem Artichoke to gather a few baskets of roots, which must be boiled and peeled down to a few score pounds of edible material. Even a bonanza 10-acre plot in a meadow would feed 40 people for a few days. Early Americans s…

I don't really understand what point you're trying to make, w/r/t the post you're replying to.

Again:

A family might feed themselves through a combination of any or all of: hunting, trapping, fishing, foraging for wild edibles, home gardening, AND buying from whatever is available on the market.

I'm saying that hunting, etc. are individuals components of a broader strategy for providing food - not that any one of those things is sufficient in and of itself. As as of today, it doesn't appear to me that the commercial market for food is going to just disappear overnight. But if things devolve to the point that you can't buy everything you need, then some of these other approaches can come into play.

Seafood - that sounds like continuing to rely upon the food supply line (fishing boats and their supply chain).

There isn't just one "food supply line." The supply chain for the steak you buy at Food Lion involves a lot of intermediate steps and processing. And those are exactly the steps where we've heard news reports of the processing plants closing down, etc.

My point about seafood is that there are fewer such intermediate steps involved. A boat comes in, docks, and sells their shrimp to the seafood house, and the seafood house sells to the public. The main processing is weighing. And some boat captains even bypass the "sell to the seafood house" part and sell direct.

Re: Facing meat shortages, some Americans turn to hunting during pandemic

#49

Post by indymike » Mon, May 04, 2020, 2:09 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #11

There is a tiny fraction of the available game to feed America. A single deer would feed a family of four for, what, a week? So, every family needs 52 deer per annum. Forget it. This is sort of why civilization is based on agriculture. Not hunting-and-gathering.

It takes about 2-6 deer to provide meat for a family of four for a year. So, a single deer is about two months of meat. (a deer is 50-125lbs of meat... depending on species and size)

Re: Facing meat shortages, some Americans turn to hunting during pandemic

#50

Post by JoeAltmaier » Mon, May 04, 2020, 2:14 PM UTC

indymike wrote: post #49

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #11

There is a tiny fraction of the available game to feed America. A single deer would feed a family of four for, what, a week? So, every family needs 52 deer per annum. Forget it. This is sort of why civilization is based on agriculture. Not hunting-and-gathering.

It takes about 2-6 deer to provide meat for a family of four for a year. So, a single deer is about two months of meat. (a deer is 50-125lbs of meat... depending on species and size)

Not if that's all the calories you have - then it adds up to a week's nutrition. But sure, as a trivial additive for fun, deer can work for a tiny fraction of the population.

My state of 3M had 100,000 deer harvested last year. That's deer for 3% of the population. One deer each. Not gonna put a dent in our food supply. That was my only point.