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Bye, Amazon

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Re: Bye, Amazon

#31

Post by wegs »

reitzensteinm wrote: post #18
simonebrunozzi wrote: post #2

> I quit in dismay at Amazon firing whistleblowers Assuming this is the real true reason (I would trust Tim, but you never know, so just being explicit here), it takes huge balls to do something like this. The economic loss has to be somewhat taken in relation to your total wealth (e.g. if you lose $1M by quitting but you already have $10M+ in the bank, it's not as hard as if you had zero in the bank), but still... V…

I think you can trust that it's the real reason, because either way it's going to make him radioactive for the next gig like this. No large company keeps its hands completely clean. Defense contracts, Chinese censorship, exploiting addiction, anticompetitive behaviour, sexism, the list goes on. Having a public figure at your company that's willing to martyr themselves to push the knife in just a little deeper when yo…

He's also 64. That's near retirement age, and I imagine he can afford to retire early.

Re: Bye, Amazon

#32

Post by bigiain »

soulofmischief wrote: post #11
miked85 wrote: post #6

> I’m sure it’s a coincidence that every one of them is a person of color, a woman, or both. Right? Including this bit is interesting. So he is accusing Amazon of being both sexist and racist in addition to treating workers poorly.

That is quite a bold statement. Perhaps he meant management is generally discriminatory against those with a minority representation within the company, which is a less aggressive framing.

I suspect Tim chose his words extremely carefully there, it's bold because he intended it to be bold.

Re: Bye, Amazon

#33

Post by schnischna »

stupidcar wrote: post #20

> At the end of the day, it’s all about power balances. The warehouse workers are weak and getting weaker... Whenever I speak to someone working in a "low-skilled" job, I'm always astonished and embarrassed by how different their work environment sounds to the kind of offices I work in. There seems to be a consistent theme of employees being treated with suspicion, condescension and outright hostility. This gets to t…

That's why people work hard to acquire skills, to be able to work in better jobs.

I have never run a warehouse, but I suspect that many of the strange seeming rules are in place because people otherwise try to exploit the system (like getting paid for smoking on the toilet for hours on end). It may seem inhumane, but perhaps it makes it possible to give people jobs who don't deserve automatic trust. Such people exist, unfortunately.

I found very interesting the book of the guy who founded "The Big Issue", a magazine that homeless people sell in Britain. They also had to put some rules in place that seem strange, for example the vendors (homeless people) had to buy the magazines they wanted to sell. They are alcoholics, gamblers, addicts, so unfortunately some special rules were necessary to make it work.

Re: Bye, Amazon

#35

Post by morelisp »

schnischna wrote: post #27
morelisp wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In one case, an organizer was fired for refusing to not come to work after being put on "quarantine", three weeks after he was initially exposed and not given any leave, and no one else involved in the exposure was quarantined. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/31/amazon-strik... The specific incidents Bray discussed seemed to be on a private internal list, and specifically related to AECJ so probably not…

Nevertheless, he was quarantined and came to work. Why?

I mean, he's absolutely explicit why: Smalls felt, by all evidence reasonably, that Amazon's working conditions were unsafe and unfair and wanted to advocate for better conditions for himself and his fellow workers.

Why do you feel the need to ask this question? What ridiculous conspiracy theory are you concocting that somehow gives an ulterior motive to this situation?

Re: Bye, Amazon

#36

Post by detaro »

Simon_says wrote: post #30
miked85 wrote: post #6

> I’m sure it’s a coincidence that every one of them is a person of color, a woman, or both. Right? Including this bit is interesting. So he is accusing Amazon of being both sexist and racist in addition to treating workers poorly.

That was my read -- that he's accusing Amazon of being biased against hiring white men. But that kind of accusation needs a little bit more evidence behind it, and probably another standalone post.

How do you get that from the article?!

Re: Bye, Amazon

#37

Post by wtmt »

I appreciate the candid statement he has made about one of the things that ails Amazon's leadership.

> Only that’s not just Amazon, it’s how 21st-century capitalism is done.

I wonder if there's any future opportunity for him in the existing set of well known names or large enough companies. I can't think of any widely known tech company that doesn't do "21st-century capitalism" (treating people as disposable cogs). Seems like getting into some non-profit that also has a decent track record may be the way to go for him.

Re: Bye, Amazon

#38

Post by icebraining »

schnischna wrote: post #27
morelisp wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In one case, an organizer was fired for refusing to not come to work after being put on "quarantine", three weeks after he was initially exposed and not given any leave, and no one else involved in the exposure was quarantined. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/31/amazon-strik... The specific incidents Bray discussed seemed to be on a private internal list, and specifically related to AECJ so probably not…

Nevertheless, he was quarantined and came to work. Why?

The quarantine seems to be complete BS:

"According to the company’s previous statements, the infected co-worker in question last reported for work on 11 March. (...) Smalls said Amazon did not send him home until 28 March, three weeks after the exposure."

Re: Bye, Amazon

#39

Post by chinathrow »

reitzensteinm wrote: post #18
simonebrunozzi wrote: post #2

> I quit in dismay at Amazon firing whistleblowers Assuming this is the real true reason (I would trust Tim, but you never know, so just being explicit here), it takes huge balls to do something like this. The economic loss has to be somewhat taken in relation to your total wealth (e.g. if you lose $1M by quitting but you already have $10M+ in the bank, it's not as hard as if you had zero in the bank), but still... V…

I think you can trust that it's the real reason, because either way it's going to make him radioactive for the next gig like this. No large company keeps its hands completely clean. Defense contracts, Chinese censorship, exploiting addiction, anticompetitive behaviour, sexism, the list goes on. Having a public figure at your company that's willing to martyr themselves to push the knife in just a little deeper when yo…

> Having a public figure at your company that's willing to martyr themselves to push the knife in just a little deeper when you have a scandal is a dumb idea.

Having a toxic work culture in warehouses seems a dumb idea too.

Re: Bye, Amazon

#40

Post by simonebrunozzi »

wegs wrote: post #31
reitzensteinm wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you can trust that it's the real reason, because either way it's going to make him radioactive for the next gig like this. No large company keeps its hands completely clean. Defense contracts, Chinese censorship, exploiting addiction, anticompetitive behaviour, sexism, the list goes on. Having a public figure at your company that's willing to martyr themselves to push the knife in just a little deeper when yo…

He's also 64. That's near retirement age, and I imagine he can afford to retire early.

I wouldn't dismiss how hard it can be to quit a job you love, just because you're 64. I know people that love doing what they do well in their late 70s, and job satisfaction for them is way more important than any monetary aspect.
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