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Bye, Amazon

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Re: Bye, Amazon

#21

Post by schnischna »

simonhfrost wrote: post #9

> It’s that Amazon treats the humans in the warehouses as fungible units of pick-and-pack potential. Only that’s not just Amazon, it’s how 21st-century capitalism is done. Stung me the most. Capitalism seems to have such an increasingly firm grip on the world that I'm starting to think the only way out is from some drastic worldwide event (Corona?).

What is so bad about treating somebody as someone who can pick and pack your parcels? It's just a job?

And what does it have to do with Capitalism. You think under Socialism they would care about your individuality? No they wouldn't - Socialism is a Collectivist ideology, after all.

The way to strengthen workers is to increase demand for their work, or find ways to make their (limited) skills more useful, or give them new skills. Those are all compatible with Capitalism.

Re: Bye, Amazon

#22

Post by ealexhudson »

miked85 wrote: post #6

> I’m sure it’s a coincidence that every one of them is a person of color, a woman, or both. Right? Including this bit is interesting. So he is accusing Amazon of being both sexist and racist in addition to treating workers poorly.

I think it's an important point. The warehouse staff get treated worse than the AWS staff because they're fungible; easily replaced and cost little. But they're also over-represented by women and people of colour, so the net effect is sexist and racist.

The decision making might not be explictly sexist/racist, but that feels like hiding behind an excuse. It is exactly a power dynamic.

Re: Bye, Amazon

#23

Post by mettamage »

So if I get this right, now a VP will be hired that will approve of these things?

I wonder if there'd have been utility to attempt to change the system from the inside out.

I guess there wouldn't be. Then this would be the only option left.

Re: Bye, Amazon

#24

Post by stepbeek »

dcgudeman wrote: post #14

How many "Amazon VP"s are there, 1000? Whenever I see stories like this the majority of the time the position of the individual is embellished to make the act seem more dramatic.

iirc there are very few distinguished engineers at Amazon. Tim Bray is high flying from a technical standpoint.

Re: Bye, Amazon

#25

Post by zimpenfish »

Whilst this is laudable and it would be great if more people stood up for principles, it does rather imply he was ok with every other shady practice Amazon was involved in for the previous 5 years.

Re: Bye, Amazon

#26

Post by gadders »

jsnell wrote: post #8

Does anyone know what the "laughable justifications" for the firings were?

One was explained in the linked article:

"Amazon fired the warehouse worker Smalls on Monday, after he led a walkout of a number of employees at a Staten Island distribution warehouse. Amazon says he was fired for violating a company-imposed 14-day quarantine after he came into contact with an employee who tested positive for the coronavirus.

Smalls says the employee who tested positive came into contact with many other workers for longer periods of time before her test came back. He claims he was singled out after pleading with management to sanitize the warehouse and be more transparent about the number of workers who were sick."

Re: Bye, Amazon

#27

Post by schnischna »

morelisp wrote: post #17
jsnell wrote: post #8

Does anyone know what the "laughable justifications" for the firings were?

In one case, an organizer was fired for refusing to not come to work after being put on "quarantine", three weeks after he was initially exposed and not given any leave, and no one else involved in the exposure was quarantined. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/31/amazon-strik... The specific incidents Bray discussed seemed to be on a private internal list, and specifically related to AECJ so probably not…

Nevertheless, he was quarantined and came to work. Why?

Re: Bye, Amazon

#28

Post by te_chris »

Genuinely inspiring. Made me realise how long it's been since someone high up in tech actually took a stand and a risk and defended their principles publically. Thank you and know that your actions are meaningful and appreciated.

Re: Bye, Amazon

#29

Post by bigiain »

miked85 wrote: post #6

> I’m sure it’s a coincidence that every one of them is a person of color, a woman, or both. Right? Including this bit is interesting. So he is accusing Amazon of being both sexist and racist in addition to treating workers poorly.

Right at the end he says:

"Spot a pattern? · At the end of the day, it’s all about power balances. The warehouse workers are weak and getting weaker, what with mass unemployment and (in the US) job-linked health insurance. So they’re gonna get treated like crap, because capitalism. Any plausible solution has to start with increasing their collective strength."

Pretty clear where the bottom of the power balance is... Sadly, sexism and racism is an inevitable fallout of that in contemporary American culture...

Re: Bye, Amazon

#30

Post by Simon_says »

miked85 wrote: post #6

> I’m sure it’s a coincidence that every one of them is a person of color, a woman, or both. Right? Including this bit is interesting. So he is accusing Amazon of being both sexist and racist in addition to treating workers poorly.

That was my read -- that he's accusing Amazon of being biased against hiring white men. But that kind of accusation needs a little bit more evidence behind it, and probably another standalone post.
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