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History of Logo

escholarship.org

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Re: History of Logo

#51

Post by bjterry »

chrisdone wrote: post #5

There's a StrangeLoop talk about teaching programming by Felienne Hermans ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1ib43q3uXQ ) that claims that all fields have an "exploration vs instruction" debate on how to teach their field, but this debate is apparently absent from the field of programming for the most part, wherein the "mess around and figure it out" exploration style of LOGO and Papert ("every time you teach somethi…

I found this talk pretty interesting. Thankfully, the speaker doesn't limit the talk to "starting the debate," one of the world's annoying rhetorical tricks. She actually comes out in favor of an identifiable, different pedagogical method, and is doing research to establish whether or not it is superior.

Re: History of Logo

#52

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

tingletech wrote: post #49
LargoLasskhyfv wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really like it. It is so unobtrusive. At first i've been surprised because i disabled in-browser Pdf-reading, but it almost looked like a pdf-reader. All proportioned and positioned just right, no fiddling necessary. And not laggy either. This is how it should be! (For me.)

it is a pdf reader, our own fork of PDF.js https://github.com/eScholarship/pdfjs-embed2

I wondered about that, since the original document obviously was a pdf. Anyways, doesn't matter because your fork did the right thing for me on 24" @1920x1200, while i've been up for about 7 hours, reading and beginning to feel a little tired. When i came across your's it eased me into focus. Again: This is how it should be!

Re: History of Logo

#53

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

LargoLasskhyfv wrote: post #52
tingletech wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it is a pdf reader, our own fork of PDF.js https://github.com/eScholarship/pdfjs-embed2

I wondered about that, since the original document obviously was a pdf. Anyways, doesn't matter because your fork did the right thing for me on 24" @1920x1200, while i've been up for about 7 hours, reading and beginning to feel a little tired. When i came across your's it eased me into focus. Again: This is how it should be!

edit: i should add i know both the internal ones of Firefox, and Chromium. They usually don't work for me, that is why i disabled them, apart from the usual cargo-culting paranoia to only open documents with native applications ;)

Re: History of Logo

#54

Post by bharvey »

pgtan wrote: post #13
new2628 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's some merit to both sides. As a kid in the eighties, I remember being annoyed by Logo -- it seemed a toy, and even as I child I wanted to learn the tools with which "real programs" (mostly games) could be written.

Berkeley Logo has higher order mapping functions like "cascade" and "crossmap" which I miss in modern Emacs Lisp with its countless packages for example. If you want something more fancier, NetLogo provides agent based parallelism which is more suitable for games. The only thing I miss in (Berkeley) Logo is a better fill function.

> The only thing I miss in (Berkeley) Logo is a better fill function.

Thanks for volunteering! :) The code's at

https://github.com/jrincayc/ucblogo-code

Re: History of Logo

#55

Post by larsbrinkhoff »

DonHopkins wrote: post #22
larsbrinkhoff wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also running on the emulator: PDP-10 Logo, PDP-11 Logo, Applle II Logo. The emulator doesn't support the robot arm yet.

I have nightmares about that! ;) https://donhopkins.com/home/catalog/hyperlook/TalkInterfacin...

Say, are you handy with lego?

Re: History of Logo

#56

Post by __david__ »

I couldn't stand Logo as a child--my entire childhood goal was to make a video game and Logo was just so slow. Turtle graphics made certain things easy (drawing circles) but there was no way to get some animated sprites on the screen. I pretty much instantly recognized this and stubbornly decided it was toy language for babies.

It wasn't until years later that I realized that Logo had a bunch of neat fundamentals (like functions, which were totally foreign to BASIC-fluent me). It's a shame it wasn't more attractive to a kid like me.

Re: History of Logo

#57

Post by bharvey »

DonHopkins wrote: post #14
new2628 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's some merit to both sides. As a kid in the eighties, I remember being annoyed by Logo -- it seemed a toy, and even as I child I wanted to learn the tools with which "real programs" (mostly games) could be written.

Snap! has the full power of Scheme (first class functions, user defined blocks, recursion, closures, continuations, JavaScript integration, etc), with a visual block syntax and playful graphical environment with turtle graphics like Scratch. The following post is a couple years old, but maybe somebody can provide some updates and recent info! Edit: I should have RTFA first, which is totally up to date, just published…

Thanks for the kind words both about Logo and about Snap!. That article is in fact not yet officially published, but if I'm reading the ACM legalbol correctly, authors are allowed to put an "author's last draft" version on their institutions' web archives, so that's what you found.

The article has eight authors, and of course the time required to write something is \Theta(n^2) in the number of authors, so it was a long slog, although worth it because in between yelling at each other we had some great conversations about education and computers and Logo technology.

I am inordinately proud of Snap!, which is almost entirely the work of Jens Mönig. My big contribution was to talk him into lambda. (Coming in the next version: APL-style vector and matrix operations. After that we just have to find a way to shoehorn in Prolog and we'll be the unification (pun not intended) of all the good programming languages.)

Re: History of Logo

#58

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

DonHopkins wrote: post #14
new2628 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's some merit to both sides. As a kid in the eighties, I remember being annoyed by Logo -- it seemed a toy, and even as I child I wanted to learn the tools with which "real programs" (mostly games) could be written.

Snap! has the full power of Scheme (first class functions, user defined blocks, recursion, closures, continuations, JavaScript integration, etc), with a visual block syntax and playful graphical environment with turtle graphics like Scratch. The following post is a couple years old, but maybe somebody can provide some updates and recent info! Edit: I should have RTFA first, which is totally up to date, just published…

According to the wayback machine the last successful snapshot of snap-apps.org was made in June 2018. Everything after is 404, and the domain is inactive, pending delete.

https://web.archive.org/web/20180629001523/https://snap-apps...

They are now here: http://snapapps.github.io/

Re: History of Logo

#59

Post by lydzb123 »

DonHopkins wrote: post #20

Seymour Papert, introducing "The Turtle": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-V_OPfmbbCk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTO-Ruby-Uo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJlRGe5QGhs

Ah, Thanks for linking these vids! I loved playing with turtle geometry back in elementary school. Brings back happy memories :D
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