Earlier quoted context omitted.
So then why are you in this thread at all? Apple goes its own way, people who like interesting, mechanically deep games with cool tech go their own.
Sure we can go out own ways! But I was challenging the Apple "not taking gaming seriously" accusation. Mobile gaming is gaming now, if you count where gamers spend their money. Apple sell the easiest, most powerful mobile platforms for developers, and theres are loads of iOS exclusives as a result. Big budget, cutting edge graphics, fiddly controls, single player big screen adventures... Those games are a shrinking n…
Valve drops VR support for macOS
251–260 of 287 posts
Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS
#252Earlier quoted context omitted.
HL:A definitely does more with something resembling an adventure formula akin to the traditional HL games, versus most other VR titles. Per my original comment; I think I have to consider it as experimenting, and it's only partially successful. (low-level spoilers) There's one moment early on where you're asked to solve a vorgon puzzle in a drainage ditch. Every person I've asked who has been through this area dislik…
> And, head yaw can also suck in VR. Aren't tethered headsets a thing of the past now? I have a Quest and never had that issue.
The Quest does two things that are interesting, and rather unique from a full market perspective; local rendering, and inside-out tracking.
Local rendering is probably the future for VR platforms. Unfortunately, there's really only one company on the planet with a mobile SoC design capable of driving the performance necessary for truly current-generation VR experiences, and that company is not interested in sharing their technology (Apple). The Quest, with its android smartphone-class specs, is not, in my mind, a current-gen VR headset from a performance perspective. It has other (huge!) advantages which make it an awesome purchase (generally, the best purchase for most people), but performance is not one of them.
I think the jury is still out on inside-out tracking. It may approach a level where it is good enough for most use-cases, while still being worse than outside-in tracking is today. Arguably, its there today. Fundamentally, if your environment is dark, or lacks the many visual intelligence landmarks necessary for the AI to operate, its going to struggle, not to even mention the challenges it has in tracking hand positions behind your back (which is very common in FPS-type games, where you often reach into your backpack to grab more ammo).
Plus, the local rendering, the inside-out tracking, and internal battery, all add weight to the headset, which already cheaps out on the circumcranial support straps to properly distribute weight (many people swap their Quest straps with, say, those from a Rift S or even an Index/Vive, because they're so much better). The Quest is both one of the most and least advanced headsets on the market.
Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS
#253Earlier quoted context omitted.
The Mac mini amazingly has user expandable RAM. Crucial sells kits for up to 64GB. It is still too expensive a machine got what you get.
Only the old Mac Minis from 2012 and before have user expandable RAM, the newer ones have the RAM and storage soldered on. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205041
It is a bit of a pain and took me about 45 minutes, but I was going slow.
Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS
#254Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS
#255Earlier quoted context omitted.
Jobs’ view always seemed short sighted to me. Yes, they were a hardware company back when he made these decisions, but software sells the hardware in the market he was in.
> Jobs’ view always seemed short sighted to me Halo was originally intended as a Mac release, and Steve was livid[1] when Microsoft bought Bungie and made it an Xbox exclusive. I think his apathy toward the games business probably grew from experiences like that, if not that one specifically. 1. https://www.mcvuk.com/business-news/publishing/steve-jobs-ra...
Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS
#256Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's funny that you're making a really strong assumption about something that you've never even tried. You can get $2xx.xx Microsoft backed WMR VR headsets new. Facebook's all inclusive Oculus Quest is $400 new. ymmv but I've been able to buy used VR systems like the Vive Pro for $375 on ebay. Just to use them for either driving or flying simulators, VR is already worth it. That said, there's still plenty to complain…
You’ve got it backwards. One must make a strong argument for spending hundreds on something with uncertain value, not make an argument against spending the money. Basic prudence says that items of uncertain value should be weighted less strongly, and receive fewer resources.
VR is also no longer a super expensive hobby. It's just as affordable as a normal video game console now. It's not a Macbook. (I know this because we've also had to buy new Apple machines recently. No point in buying used ones since they have a Mac OS EOL within 6 years or less.)
Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS
#257Earlier quoted context omitted.
> And, head yaw can also suck in VR. Aren't tethered headsets a thing of the past now? I have a Quest and never had that issue.
Absolutely not. The most advanced headsets on the market require a tether. And, to make matters worse, outside-in lighthouse-style tracking. Valve Index, Vive Cosmos Elite, even the Rift S. The Quest is literally the only headset capable of operating fully untethered; its possible to set up wireless tethers on most headsets, its just more expensive, and it still requires a PC. The Quest does two things that are inter…
I've heard streaming to the Oculus Quest is basically like owning a Rift. I haven't tried it myself though.
Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS
#258Earlier quoted context omitted.
That doesn't prove it's not a niche, dude. Valve, like a lot of other companies, hopes that VR will become a thing, so they're making a headset. Because they'd like to sell headsets, they took a major property and made a VR version. If they lose money on their VR version of Half Life, they're fine with that. Some game makers will surely try VR versions as well. This could be a big wave, and they want to be ready, so…
You can try to reason all you want, the fact is that today there is a Half Life game that is only playable on VR. It's a significant fact.
Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS
#259I remain skeptical of the long term viability of VR; I’m old enough to remember when 3D TVs and monitors were going to change the face of both TV and video games, and yet here we are. I priced out VR recently and I was unimpressed with the price per value available, with most systems adding $500-$1,000 to my gaming system’s cost, and some requiring that I modify my room to work properly. And that’s not even accountin…
Yeah but have you played beat saber? I'm dead serious though the experience you get in a good immersive VR rig is completely unrivaled. Well worth the hassle and overhead. This will get better as costs come down and developers continue to innovate.
The entire concept of the game (time only progresses while you're moving) fits _so well_ with VR. It makes you feel like a complete badass as you're able to perform ninja-like feats of dexterity and dodge bullets all the while being a just challenging-enough puzzle and providing a decent workout.
Everything else I've played was either basically a tech demo or felt like our old games built within the limitations of VR (what really differentiates Beat Saber from DDR, Guitar Hero, etc?). SUPERHOT was one of the few games I played that really felt like a proper VR game.
Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS
#260Earlier quoted context omitted.
I will say that the newer MBPs have decent video cards. They’re not great, but they’re ok-ish.
Those GPUs are horribly underpowered for the screen they're driving. They would be fine on a 1920x1080 display, but on a Mac display the GPU barely squeezes stable 30fps on modern games... even in lowest settings.